From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Muddy Waters

New North American record sunflower seeds will be available through the WWGG & Marvin himself.

http://www.worldwidegiantgrowers.com/2017-sunflower-contest-results-.html

Check out pictures on above link

11/25/2017 1:51:41 PM

Netherlands

Kind of misleading. That isn't any kind of record, except for perhaps Michigan record. The North American record is a full foot taller and dates back to 1998.

11/26/2017 10:51:58 AM

Muddy Waters

really ? I was misformed who holds the North American record then?

11/26/2017 7:52:48 PM

Muddy Waters

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/tallest-sunflower

I found this 30 feet world record from Germany. I cant find one on the US

11/26/2017 7:58:40 PM

Netherlands

I see the confusion. Your link led to Marvin's 277" sunflower from last year, which wasn't a record. He did grow a record this year.

11/27/2017 3:21:33 AM

Netherlands

Unfortunately Marvin's sunflower was incorrectly measured as it included the tap root. That would disqualify it. Roots are never allowed on corn or sunflower plants.

11/27/2017 3:24:08 AM

Wixom MI.

Dutch Brad Marvins sunflower is measured at a gpc Weighoff and the picture that i have seen shows the roots are cut off !!! That is the second false accusation that you

11/27/2017 7:33:43 AM

Wixom MI.

That is the second false accusation that you have made !!! Show us a picture of your facts !!!

11/27/2017 7:35:29 AM

Netherlands

Chris, Marvin says that himself on the link Mark has posted. Quote: "So as in all plants it all starts at the roots and in tall sunflowers the tap root counts in the height".
That this happened was confirmed by a giant veg grower there so I don't understand your false accusation about my false accusation...lol

GPC doesn't do sunflowers, so that doesn't help. Guinness has set rules and I guess it would be best to follow those.

11/27/2017 2:17:39 PM

Eddyz@efirehose.net

Yep I get it False News

11/27/2017 2:29:45 PM

Wixom MI.

Wow how two people can read the same thing and interpet it compleately different. One i have seen these contests and i have never seen one measure the roots with the height of a plant even if they were left on !!!
What i see in marvs endorsement to marks root keeper is that to grow a tall gaint sunflower is that it is all in the root system and feeding deep to get a deep tap root, not that the contest is now including the length of the root system with the height of the plant !

11/27/2017 7:21:50 PM

Netherlands

Chris, I made sure before I posted that it was measured with the root. It was confirmed by growers at the weigh-off. It added 6-8 inches to the length.
I might be Dutch now, but I was born and raised in Canada and have a Masters Degree in English, so I can read English...lol

11/28/2017 4:10:03 AM

Canada

I have grown tall sunflowers for years and I do take them to Port Elgin and other weigh offs. I have seen them measured with all the roots attached, no roots, just the tap root, with a steel tape flat on table, with a fabric tape bending over bends and bumps, with the growers present and absent. Marvins was measured with the tap root on as they all are at Port Elgin if all the other roots are cut off.
Unfortunately most weigh offs dont care about the rules they just want the vegys to show up. This problem occurs with all the types of vegys. Im sure we have all seen a light squash or a soft pumpkin weighed as good.
I do not believe that this is Marvins fault or that he should be punished for it.Every judge is different and does measuring their own way, fair to everyone at that weigh off.
I guess for any World record to count according to Guinness than a Guinness rep should be there with the rules and their measuring equipment to varify it.

11/28/2017 7:50:26 AM

Wixom MI.

Well then i apologize dutch brad. Here in michigan i have never seen that done and i agree that is misleading.

11/28/2017 9:19:46 AM

Georgetown, Ontario

The GPC has done a great job creating standardized rules for Giant Pumpkin, Field Pumpkin, Tomato, Long Gourd, and Watermelon so each weigh off is judging the same way. Now that the GPC is accepted by Guinness as official weigh offs for the purpose of submitting a World Record maybe it's time the GPC comes up with standardized rules for the other non GPC vegetables so each weigh off has the same set of rules that are followed and accepted by Guinness. It's really hard to find a complete set of rules to follow for all the different classes of vegetables, which leads to each weigh off doing things differently. A set of rules for each GPC weigh off to follow would really help out everyone.

11/28/2017 9:28:03 AM

Fenton, MI

Dutch Brad, I started going to Port Elgin a GPC event 20 years ago. About 18 years ago I took a tall sunflower ( about 12' ) and I cut the tap root off. The judge there ask me why I cut the tape root off and I said because I didn't think that it would count. I was told that in tall sunflowers only that it did count and is in the rules, so I have left them on from that point.

Here in the U.S. the only one that I know off that keeps all the records for this kind of stuff is Steve Derycke @ giantgardening.com I think he has all the ones that have been grown in the U. S. and the World.

I don't think that the GPC will ever have the time to make a set of rules for all the non GPC Vegetables, but they do a great job with what they have done. ( that's free time they put in ) and I really don't think I will ever grow a tall sunflower over 30' 1" of Hans - Peter Schiffer's so I am not going to worry about it.

The point I was trying to make was that Marks root keeper works as my roots were a lot bigger than in the past and the bigger roots is what made my sunflower taller than ever before.
I can live with any rule that is made or is out there, but I know it was the seed and the root keeper that made my sunflower taller than ever before.

11/28/2017 11:32:05 AM

Alaska

It sure helps when the individual who's being talked about speaks up and helps to set the record straight, so to speak, lol. Thank you for that Marvin. As far as record keeping goes I'll always defer to Guinness. Simply because they are the organization whose primary goal is recording keeping they have no dog in the fight. They will be around long after some individual dies or loses interest and quits updating their web site. Guinness use to keep track of American/US records and had an office in New York somewhere if I remember right. But it became more confusing trying to keep the two records books straight so they went back to the one World Records and that pretty much covers it all, wouldn't you say. The internet is scattered with giant vegetable web sites that promote products and people full of inaccurate claims and information.

11/28/2017 3:04:48 PM

Alaska

"record keeping" I meant to say.

11/28/2017 3:07:46 PM

Alaska

Most state fairs or long running horticultural shows usually keep accurate records for their given state/country. In the UK they have a long history of growing giant veggies and they too for the most part keep accurate records books. Again I'd take with a grain of salt claims made by individuals who are promoting themselves and their products as the true records keepers.

11/28/2017 3:30:35 PM

Fenton, MI

Scott, I agree that Guinness is the only one that keeps the World Records that I know off. Like you say they have no dog in the fight. My sunflower was a long ways from being a World Record and at my age I am sure I will never see one at my patch. I grow them for the love of it ( like a lot of growers do ) and take one to Port Elgin every year, tall or short.

I go by the weigh-off site rules, would it be nice if all weigh-off sites did every thing the same Yes but we all know that does not always happen and may never.

If some one knows of one that was grew taller than 297" in the U.S. please let me know. But we are still not talking about a World Record, just a tall sunflower so way Guinness.

11/28/2017 5:23:05 PM

Wixom MI.

I am totaly shocked that a site like port elgin would measure any part of the root system as the total height of a plant. I now wonder if all the north american sites measure this way or a few others or just port elgin ? Its one thing if this is done at a site where no one is even close to any kind of records, but when state records, usa or canada records are at stake they should make sure that they are all being measured with the same rules and correct interpretation so that you don't have controversy !!!

11/28/2017 5:37:18 PM

Alaska

Yep I understand Marvin. And no I don't know of anyone in the US that has grown one taller. 297" is quite an accomplishment as far as I'm concerned. Very nice!

11/28/2017 7:58:03 PM

NE Arkansas

Congrats Marvin! It's a great accomplishment to grow something that tall. I don't care about any naysayers thoughts! Congrats again! It was great meeting you this year!

11/28/2017 11:56:37 PM

Netherlands

Marvin, thanks for chiming in. There is absolutely no blame on your part at all nor did I intend any. You did a great job and I always follow your results (and those of others) on the Port Elgin site live during the weigh-off. Sunflowers are incredibly difficult to measure as is tall corn. There is no doubt you grew a US record. Congratulations are certainly due. The problem is the next guy who grows one which is measured without roots and comes an inch short.

11/29/2017 6:18:57 AM

Netherlands

@ PumpkinShephard (John), I would certainly help the GPC with the rules and I'm sure people like Spudley (Scott) and a few other (specialist) growers would be willing to help me (in cooperation with Guinness).

11/29/2017 6:28:05 AM

Fenton, MI

I would to see some growers work with the GPC and have a set of rules or guide lines for all weigh-off sites on all category's.
Now to maybe clear air a little, I was told years ago by a Port Elgin judge that the way they measure tall corn, tall sunflower and big head sunflower is right from the GPC book of rules or guide lines what ever you want to call it. So are they 1 of the ones doing it right and maybe some of the others not? I am just asking.

11/29/2017 7:27:03 AM

Ontario, Canada

I googled how to measure them officially & I can't find any rules. Can someone point me to the official rules about measuring them?

Thanks,
Phil

11/29/2017 10:50:08 AM

Germany

EGVGA has a set of rules for various vegetables

http://www.egvga.eu/index.php/judging-vegetables

Unfortunately, I can´t tell where these rules are coming from, there´s no reference given on this page.

11/29/2017 10:58:41 AM

Western NY

I checked on the Port Elgin site, they do not have the rules page listed that I was looking for. I believe they used to have a different one with pictures, and for a time we had it as a resource document on the GPC site. Since they were not GPC categories and we were not in the business of judging them, we removed the link to the document a couple years ago.

I still have it archived, and you can download it here: http://www.gpc1.org/PDF/otherveggies.pdf

I believe it was likely an excerpt from the PE rules on the "other" categories. Hope that helps.

Andy

11/29/2017 11:06:25 AM

Fenton, MI

I am 100% for having all GPC weigh-offs do things the same way for these other categories, that would be great. One thing I think we have to look at is the people that run these weigh-offs do a lot of work and put in a lot of free time as well as there helpers.

I know over the years the GPC has done a great job on the guide lines for pumpkins, squash, melons, long gourds and tomato's and that has made it better for all growers.

So I say thanks to all that are trying to help make it better or the same for all.

11/29/2017 12:29:38 PM

Netherlands

Pumpking, when applying for the 2 world records I grew in 2007 and 2009, I received the set of rules from Guinness themselves. Those rules are not online which is why you couldn't find them Phil.

Just to make things clear, Guinness did not design those rules. They were designed by the (British) giant vegetable community some 50-60 years ago. It was especially Bernard Lavery (18x WR holder) who helped out. They presented them to Guinness who accepted them and had them applied at all (major) British giant veg shows.

The ones on the EGVGA site were written by me in the 2007-2009 period using the Guinness rules, the ones I had from Bernard Lavery and after discussing them with other (specialist) growers including Scott. The team back then had collectively grown some 30 WR.

I would be willing to do it all over again, this time taking more care in describing the difficult ones, perhaps adding drawings or pictures to clear up tricky issues.

11/29/2017 1:32:05 PM

Netherlands

Sorry for hijacking your post, Mark. I hope it does direct more traffic to your site, though.

11/29/2017 1:35:54 PM

Ontario, Canada

So according to Andy's link, the small stalk piece below the ground is included & the roots around it are cut off.

11/29/2017 2:03:18 PM

Ontario, Canada

The European site has this for the sunflower rule

"Sunflowers are measured from the bottom of the stalk (without roots) to the top of the highest petal. Sunflowers are measured in a straight line, regardless of any curves in the stalk."

Not really straight forward. Looking at the link Andy provided is much more clear & has drawings to show everyone. As far as I can see by Andy's link, Marv's record should stand as it was. Congrats again Marv.

11/29/2017 2:18:17 PM

Fenton, MI

Brad, Maybe you could start a new post so this doesn't get dropped. It would be great to have all sits on the same page.

Also thanks to all for helping on this and now my sunflower is FUN again.

PS. I didn't think that Port Elgin just pulled some out of there hat, as they are a 1st class weigh-off. I also will be going there as long as the good Lord will let me.

11/29/2017 3:48:42 PM

Canada

Glad to hear that Marvin, Port Elgin just would not be the same without you

11/29/2017 5:37:55 PM

Bloomington Indiana

Marvin your a great grower and class act!

11/29/2017 6:51:02 PM

Muddy Waters

All I did was post Marvin's testimonial that he wrote & sent me.I figured he has been growing long enough to know what the US record is.Does anyone have a name or date for a US record Sunflower that beats Marvins?I surely dont want to make any false claims.I know Marvin is one of the honest people on the planet so I will speak for him here. Who is the US champion??

11/29/2017 7:35:44 PM

Wixom MI.

Im glad to see that my miss understanding of these rules for sunflowers, turned out to make a positive and constructive post here !!! This is what makes this growing community great. Everone trying to work together to solve problems.

11/29/2017 8:27:34 PM

Wixom MI.

Marvin Mitchell tallest usa. At 24'-9" (2017)

Norm craven tallest canada at 23'-9" (1998)

11/29/2017 8:43:26 PM

Muddy Waters

Well Norm Craven would be the guy to talk to. I spoke with him on the phone a few years ago. Iused to see him at Port Elgin back late 90s. Norm is a good guy as well as Marvin

11/29/2017 10:14:19 PM

Ontario, Canada

I wouldn't be surprised if these rules were given to Port Elgin by Norm Craven, as he was a world class grower of some of the listed veggies back then. I know PE didn't write them up themselves, so if he did give it to PE, then I expect that Norm could have gotten it from overseas. Back then Port Elgin was a WPC weigh off site & they could have gotten the rules from Ray Waterman, but Ray's group wasn't into all those other veggies. Thinking back, I really think Norm Craven might have gotten the rules from overseas, as he was at that time a big player in the world of giant veggies & a fair organizer of the veggie show at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto.

11/30/2017 7:58:54 AM

Fenton, MI

Brad, You said that you would be willing to work on setting up some guide lines on this and maybe have Scott help or who ever, so it could be done the same at all GPC weigh-offs and also be something that GPC & Guinness would take.

I would be happy to do any thing that I could do, but I really think that you and Scott would be way better than me. Not that I think I can grow a world record, but I am going to try and beat the one I grew this year.
Here is my email just in case: superbangbang@msn.com

Thank you for coming on here. Marvin

11/30/2017 11:40:52 AM

Fenton, MI

Brad, You said that you would be willing to work on setting up some guide lines on this and maybe have Scott help or who ever, so it could be done the same at all GPC weigh-offs and also be something that GPC & Guinness would take.

I would be happy to do any thing that I could do, but I really think that you and Scott would be way better than me. Not that I think I can grow a world record, but I am going to try and beat the one I grew this year.
Here is my email just in case: superbangbang@msn.com

Thank you for coming on here. Marvin

11/30/2017 11:40:58 AM

Fenton, MI

OPPS hit the button twice.

11/30/2017 11:42:09 AM

Netherlands

Hi Marvin,

I have been in contact with Scott and we are now working on a new set of rules and regulations. At this point we have been in contact with Guinness, Malvern and Harrogate and have their rules along with Port Elgin, the Dutch giant vegetable weigh-off and those of Bernhard Lavery, the initial compilier of the rules for Guinness.
Guinness says they are dependent on experts from the field for their rules.
For those who don't know, Alaska State Fair, Malvern and Harrogate (both UK) and the Dutch weigh-off are pretty much the largest and most important in the world. In any case where many of the WRs are grown.
Once completed the rules will be sent to a number of WR holders for reviewing.

Marvin, I'll email you. Thanks for your help!

12/1/2017 4:02:45 AM

Fenton, MI

WOW: This is GREAT! I for one thank you guys for taking the time to do this. It's things like this that make me proud to be a grower.

12/1/2017 5:18:23 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Brad, I also want to thank you & Scott for putting in the time & effort to do this. Peace, Wayne

12/1/2017 5:47:17 PM

Muddy Waters

Great post I must say!

12/9/2017 7:23:27 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Well, Bubba... Thank you so much, this must be a first!!! LOL Peace, Wayne

12/12/2017 11:56:02 PM