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Centerburg, OH

I am growing two plants this year. The 2261 Wallace and the 2624 willemjins. The 2261 Wallace is growing good, got secondaries popping out at every leaf node on the main, it has aggressive roots etc...

Meanwhile my 2624 shot out a 8 ft main with hardly any secondaries growing. I only got the first two that are a foot long and the others are still in buds. I also noticed while digging to bury the vines the roots are not as aggressive, and only within 3 feet of the stump:( Putting all this together the plant is wilting during the heat of the day which is only around 80 degrees. I thinking all these problems on this plant are caused by the roots not being aggressive enough to take up enough water.

I don't get it. Each plant got treated the same exact way. soil test, stump site prep, same fertilizers etc... and I am watering 10 feet in all directions of the plant to the point where the soil will form into a clump if i squeeze it, and it will crumble easy as well. Any ideas why this is happening?and is there anything I can do know so this pant can reverse this behavior?

5/31/2017 3:47:14 PM

only took quick look but looked like your covering over them before they get up and out

5/31/2017 4:00:49 PM

Centerburg, OH

Don,

Yes I have the whole patch covered in 40% shade cloth. The past two years without it led to severe dropping during the heat of the day so I thought it would be a good idea

5/31/2017 5:02:13 PM

no I mean cover side vines with dirt- im with ya on shade cloth

5/31/2017 5:15:08 PM

Colorado

When ive been low on nitrogen ive had plants that didn't grow side vines. It can be genetic but I'd try a little ammonium sulfate on that plant.Quarter teaspoon in two gallons of water every three days for three times and see what she does.

5/31/2017 5:52:26 PM

Upa Creek, MO

Hey Zack, IMO it is genetics if 2 plants are in the same environment, soil etc but react different. Give it time, the 2009 was infamous for some to be a slow starter then grow big.

Also, last year my 1921 was a beast of a plant and I had a few pollinated on it in early July before the storm came and wiped it out completely. My smaller Haist plant survived due to its smaller leaves and general sq footage, but for some reason it never took to my plot it was growing in the same way the 1921 did 20 feet away.

5/31/2017 10:46:16 PM

Centerburg, OH

I was burying the main as it grew trying to leave secondary vine buds showing/not buried. They are still growing but extremely slow. I did go out and spray some fish mixed with 1/4 tsp of ammonium nitrate. The plants needed to be greened up a little. Hopefully the plant will pull through.

5/31/2017 10:47:54 PM

Bethlehem CT

My secondaries are lagging this year.

6/1/2017 1:26:38 PM

Bethlehem CT

My secondaries are lagging this year.

6/1/2017 1:26:47 PM

Centerburg, OH

Luke, I agree as well, it might have something to do with genetics. luckily the plant is pushing along and the side vines are progressing, slowly. I am using more N and I can already see a difference.

6/2/2017 12:39:33 AM

Westmoreland, KS

Do you know what your soil ph is? I'm close to you but I live in the flint hills we have a ton of limestone which makes our soil ph fairly high and it causes my ph to raise throughout the season. Most years I have very slow growing side vines i think it is because of the high ph not allowing the plant to take up the proper nutrients.

So this year I've lowered my ph by adding slow release sulfur and aluminum sulfate in the fall and then i added sulfur again in the spring. This helped lower the ph but i continue to add sulfur now in low amounts as needed.

My plants have the best side vines that i've ever had. Hope this helps. P.S. if you don't know your soil's ph a soil test would be a great thing to get.

6/2/2017 9:33:56 AM

Centerburg, OH

Jake,

I totally forgot about that, that is only thing that is different between both patches. The 2624 had a ph of 8.1 and the 2261 was 7.6. I did add elemental sulfur but it won't be lowered till late summer the earliest. I might try aluminum sulfate as the plant is coming to a stall while the 2261 wallace in a 7.6 ph is growing 5 times better than any plant I had. That would also explain as to why I've been feeding the plant and it won't green up

6/2/2017 4:37:04 PM

Barrington N.S. Canada

Hydrated Lime will lower Ph right away.

6/2/2017 6:51:49 PM

Barrington N.S. Canada

Sorry, I mean sulfur to lower your ph.

6/2/2017 7:16:45 PM

Barrington N.S. Canada

Hydrated lime to raise ph right away.

6/2/2017 7:18:10 PM

Western Massachusetts

The pumpkin, my 2624 is at 9 feet and just now throwing out secondaries. It's probably genetics as a big factor. I'm not worried because the plant looks awesome even without much width yet.

6/2/2017 8:01:34 PM

Western Massachusetts

However it's roots seem awesome

6/2/2017 8:03:50 PM

Centerburg, OH

Hayden,

It has been my conclusion that it is defiantly genetics playing some role. I went out to the patch today after work and the secondaries are no longer in buds and are almost a foot in length . This happpened in 2 days along with some super heavy feedings. I think they will continue to grow and the plant is out of that phase finally! Also the plant has devolved some aggressive tap roots under the leaf nodes and the plant did not wilt today which was close to 90 degrees.

6/4/2017 2:59:51 AM

Partlow,Va

I think genetics plays a role...but the next seed out of that kin may grow just fine. I have had no secondary plants right beside ones doing great before so I don't think it's the soil.
Another thing is when the kin plant gets shocked with a tramatic event like wet,dry,burn,temp shock. etc they can react later with weird growth...could be that esp if she got real dry one time???

6/4/2017 8:59:59 AM

Centerburg, OH

Hank,

That's is good to know that the next offspring won't nessicarily have the same issue, as I plan to Make a killer cross 2624 x 2261 and wanted to regrow it assuming everything goes good from now till October!

I can't think of any major stressors the plant went through. I am out there 3 plus hours a day taking care of 2 plants. There treated like a queen under everything I can control. I must say that the side vines are picking up speed. I just hope I got enough plant before pollination, because the main tip is 9 feet right now. Hopefully the side vines will catch up and make the plant look like a Christmas tree, as I only have another 20 feet for the main before it runs to the end of the patch.

6/5/2017 2:44:35 AM

Michigan,up North

my secondaires arnt coming out too ,have 2 plants 8 foot with none ,thank its the cool nights ,,,monday first 65 % night ,night time temps been cool 40.s

6/5/2017 6:25:24 PM

Central Illinois

I have a few secondaries that are stunted , I know they wont grow,so I'm trying to remember to let some very short tertiary vines grow to fill in the gap

6/6/2017 8:15:35 AM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

If you guys can keep a secret??? ... ok you can ... I have one that's just under 15 ft long it has 4 side vines they were slow to show up to the party but hey now they are here so party on.... the down side is now I have a huge void that will have to be filled in with thirds maybe fourth vines as well I won't worry about it now cause I have no control over the plant I hope the main slows and the sides will shoot off... I have grown in ph 8.4 and nitrogen is still nitrogen at that p h so I would lay down some nitrogen and hold on

6/6/2017 9:13:13 AM

Centerburg, OH

Unlike other parts of the US right now, there has been some good weather in St. Louis, so that is not to blame for me. I as well have some secondaries that are stunted. The longest secondary's are 4 feet in the 2624, then a secondary or two are missing, then after those the next secondary is 3 feet. I am also planning on using third growth to fill in the voids as well. It seems like a common promblem this year?

The biggest concern is getting enough growth before pollination. The main tip is at 11 feet. Yet there is no way I am going to pollinate soon with this little of a plant. It's looking like a year to maybe do 18 feet out or so in order to get anywhere close to 1000 plus pounds.

I have been pushing Nitrogen and ferts like crazy. Most guys would have burnt there plant out by now. But it seems the more higher I go in concentrations, the better the plant responds! Every time I water I'm feeding, as well as foliar feeding day and night.

The next 2 weeks will say a lot about what the plants potential is....

6/7/2017 12:19:32 AM

Upa Creek, MO

Unfortunately, sometime you have to wait and once you terminate the main, those nubs and stunted ones will kick in. If it's just a few growing then, that won't take too much juice from a 0-20 DAP pkn, and then they should be grown in and rooted by 20DAP+.

We are going to be pushing 100 by Sunday so get that shade ready. The nice weather is on its way out.

6/7/2017 8:27:12 AM