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Connecticut

Anthesis Data Summary (Question 4 of 8)

4-What is the late season growth pattern of Anthesis-applied pumpkins?

In short, the late season growth is continued until harvest with the literature indicating the possibility of an additional ripening delay. Many growers reported the best late season growth that they have seen. There was at least one pumpkin that grew right up to a weigh-off around mid-October. Late season growth is something I know growers typically struggle with, but Anthesis does seem to help keep the pumpkin growing right to the end.

One example is to think of an Anthesis-applied pumpkin like a turbo car, and an untreated pumpkin is similar to a car on Nitrous. The season is a ¼ mile drag strip, and both cars leave at the same time. The turbo car needs to build some boost (this is the increase in cell division lag time), and as a result, typically is behind at the 60 ft. mark. However, on the big end, the turbo car keeps pulling while the Nitrous car that had an early lead is typically reeled in and passed by just before the finish line. This is the same basic situation that Anthesis follows. (Hope this comparison helps;-)

12/10/2015 9:11:32 PM

Hanson Ma

Nice car reference Matt. Mad scientist and gear head. Now we just need to figure out what should be the blower and we have a pumpkin that really powers through the season. LOL. See you tomorrow Matt.

12/11/2015 10:24:05 PM

Hanson Ma

I will talk with you tomorrow about when your anthesis is available for next year.

12/11/2015 10:26:08 PM

Connecticut

nitro3custom-

Yes, I know more than just pumpkins;-) I hope to have an advertisement running the month of January with all of the details. Basically, I will have only preorder sales that will run from January 1st to March 15th, so I have enough time to make the necessary solutions.

12/11/2015 10:54:30 PM

Edmonton, 53.5N, 113.6W

Did you use Anthesis on the 1030 you grew? It was a really good looking pumpkin and I'm wondering if your product affects the pumpkins looks. Also - did you get seeds out of the 1030? I'd be interested in growing it next year.

12/12/2015 5:09:33 PM

Connecticut

Reckhard-

I did not use Anthesis on my 1030.5 (and it was 378.5 pounds less than my smallest Anthesis applied pumpkin this year). However, I do not have any evidence to show that Anthesis has any impact on color. It is applied to the skin of a 2-day old pumpkin but the effects are internal so there is no correlation to external color.

You are not the only one interested in my orange cross and I do have some to share. If you are interested please send a bubble and I will add yours to my ever growing fan mail pile;-)

12/13/2015 11:00:33 PM

Edmonton, 53.5N, 113.6W

Hi Matt, When I asked about the looks I was really thinking about shape vs color. Since the product increases cell division I was wondering if they end up lumpy or misshapen. As well could you send me your email address?

12/14/2015 5:01:47 PM

Connecticut

Reckhard-

Since Anthesis is applied very early during the initial part of cell division there should be a very even distribution of the signal so there is no reason for a lumpy or oddly sharped fruit. As long as the spray covers the 48-hr old fruit at the time of application there should be no issues at the seasons end. I did not get any reports of misshaped pumpkins from the growers that sent in data.

For my e-mail click the little envelope near my name on my diary page...
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2015&grower=25411&action=L

Any other questions just let me know.

12/14/2015 11:56:28 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

The 811 is a great orange seed and it has produced a few heavy ones too. But just for transparency, it was used as the non-anthesis control pumpkin against some real heavyweights. That did strike me when we were speaking early on in your season Matt.

12/15/2015 1:02:10 PM

Connecticut

Orangeneck-

I really like the 811, do not get me wrong it has produced some of the best looking pumpkins I have grown, and ever seed that I plant I have confidence in. How I determined my two untreated control plants was the first and last pollinations would be untreated. The 811 was very aggressive plant and as a result was my first pollination. The late pollination I had was my 179.4 DeBacco and the pumpkin was deformed upon opening so it was never pollinated and the plant was removed mid season. It is always hard to select a control pumpkin so the unbiased approach I took was based on pollinaiton date. I was hoping to have the two extremes (first and last pollinations) untreated to have a comparison.

12/15/2015 9:20:44 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

how many generations of a selfed pumpkin would it take to have very even platform for testing? I am curious how many more i should go with selfing.

12/15/2015 9:47:23 PM

Connecticut

bnot-

Typically it takes 7-10 generations to develop a stable genetic line.

See sources for supporting evidence...

"As demonstrated by rice breeding practice, it generally requires 7-10 generations of self-pollination to obtain pure lines (almost complete homozygosity) from initial cross"
http://www.ricescience.org/fileup/PDF/E050404.pdf

"Johannsen then worked on separating environmental effects from genetic effects. He did this by inbreeding the beans for 10 generations."..."After 10 generations of selfing, the percentage of heterozygotes is less than 1/1000 of the original level."
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0ahUKEwiqlIKFt9_JAhVL02MKHQwrAL8QFghQMAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bios.niu.edu%2Fjohns%2Fgenetics%2Fquant_genet.ppt&usg=AFQjCNGVgxNBpSQz-9JBAzvkG9gwHi-Sdg&cad=rja

Sometimes the simplest questions/answers have some complex supporting information/justifications.

Hope this helps and does not add confusion.

12/15/2015 10:27:21 PM

Oak Grove, Mn

thanks matt, it will be a few more years before i can offer my seeds as test subjects. It gives me something to work for.

12/15/2015 10:58:22 PM

Austin MN

Matt why not use bigmax or another cucurbit to do testing on? The gentics would be more closely related to test would they not? Not sure if you can use Anthesis on tomatoes but maybe heirloom tomatoes would be a good test subject?

12/16/2015 2:14:45 AM

50 Acres

It would only take half as long if you had a co/tech inthe south hemisphere. Two seasons a year.If youcould get the seeds dried properly. Is this possible?

12/16/2015 8:38:39 AM

Connecticut

bnot-
How many years of selfing do you have in already? I know of one grower that has a selfed line that I think is about 12 generations.

Tconway-
There are many possible analogs but I need growers that have a high level of dedication and are able to hit that 48-hr post pollination application time. Most of the growers that I know that grow the BigMax or Prizewinners are doing so more on a large/production scale. This style does not lend itself to the precise application timing that Anthesis requires. I have chosen to increase the sample size through number of growers which does expand the geographic regions of the trials that does add more “noise” but this does increase the attention to detail to the necessary application timing.

Antheis can be used on tomatoes and it has already shown some very positive results from growers. The greatest difficulty is hitting hat 48-hr post pollination timeframe. I am telling growers for next year that wait for the yellow petals to just get a little tip (dehydration) curl as this is the best visual correlation to 48-hr post pollination time. There will barely be a tomato visible but this is the key part, since by time you see the tomato most of the cell division has already stopped. Also, as the information in my slide show points out tomatoes were the original test subjects in one of the scientific papers I used as part of my research (slides 11, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46)

http://www.team-pumpkin.org/downloads/IncreasingCellDivisionsmaller.pdf

All research takes is time and money, and I wish I had more of both;-)

12/16/2015 9:29:26 PM

Connecticut

26 West-
I like your idea and it is possible to get the seeds dried in time. Do you know anyone in particular?
However, for my project there is not necessarily the need for a stable genetic line as at least in my case I would not have the space to grow out enough plants to have an adequate sample size anyway. I can say that the data that has been reported in certainly demonstrates that there is a benefit to Anthesis as there are growth curves provided to me that show initially delayed growth with an increased duration later in the season. Seasoned growers are also reporting later season growth than they have never seen in the past. All of this indicates the changes that were expected are now supported by grower’s data.

Thanks again for everyone’s interest and support, I can generate ideas but without growers willing to give them a try I would not be able to have the extensive data set that was collected over this past growing season.

12/16/2015 9:29:35 PM

Netherlands

If you have enough people growing both treated and untreated furit you will get pretty accurate statistics regardless of genetics. This can be done in one year if you have, say 50-100 growers. Even if you had genetically identical pumpkins, you would still need to grow an awful lot.

12/17/2015 4:39:59 AM

Oak Grove, Mn

Matt, I am at the fourth year. 12 years of a selfed line would take great commitment. I am impressed.

12/17/2015 1:16:51 PM

Connecticut

Dutch Brad-
I am favoring your line of thought as this is the option that seems the most likely, and in the end the amount of data will be the same.

bnot-
Do not let the 12 years discourage you as this is a grower that not many may know, but has been growing for many, many years and has true dedication to the hobby.

12/17/2015 10:44:57 PM