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Date Posted

Plymouth, Mass.

As a 3rd year grower I am looking for other growers secrets for going heavy. Ideas?

10/20/2015 1:10:44 PM

Germany

With a 14% heavy fruit on one plant and a 12% light fruit on the neighboring plant, similar OTT of the two pumpkins and both plants in the same soil and been treated with the same fertilizers, what would you want me to tell you what might have made the 14% heavy fruit go 14% heavy?...Genetics probably.

10/20/2015 1:16:03 PM

British Columbia, Canada

Grow the 1625 Gantner and you'll get a heavy pumpkin. :)

10/20/2015 1:18:51 PM

Stanwood, Washington

Its all about Genetics.

10/20/2015 2:04:41 PM

Midway, UT

I think it is definently genetics, but it is also technique. Look at Beni's pumpkins from last year. All went heavier than average for the genetics. From his numbers it tells me that most growers don't have our growing dialed in.

10/20/2015 2:41:49 PM

Germany

The progeny of the 2323 and 2096 which went heavy sort of tell me that it might be genetics in case of some of Beni´s pumpkins last year, too.

10/20/2015 3:17:02 PM

Genetics are important for heavy, thick walls but also density of those walls. Size of pumpkins will be a limiting factor, then we will breed them to be solid ( small cavity), then to improve weights we will have to breed them to be denser. Also water is important to going heavy, lots and lots of water. Fine line between lots of water and disease, good luck

10/20/2015 3:22:49 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Agreed Lint.... Water is the key... we where dry this year..little natural rain in the summer....almost all of our Colorado Pumpkins went light!

10/20/2015 4:11:38 PM

Wixom MI.

Check out brother dave's diary ! He has 2 squash that went very heavy. One went 25% heavy and the other went 29% heavy.it almost had no cavity it was so small !!!

10/20/2015 4:28:40 PM

Plainville, Connecticut 06062

I agree with everyone on the points given for going heavy or light, however after studying the GPC weighoffs each year there is no doubt that genetics plays a very big role followed by grower technique. I will give you an example. In 2014 I had three plants growing across from one another, two on the ends one in the middle. The left end pumpkin a proven producer would throw 50-50 heavy or light. The one on the right side end proven that year to grow big offspring would throw about three light to one heavy. My pumpkin in the middle was a known over the chart producer for most growers. The outcome both pumpkins on the ends went light by 1 or 2 percent the one in the middle went 10% heavy and was my worst plant. All three plants were in the same soil and treated the same for growing techniques. Seeds such as the 1495 Stelts, 1676 Daletas, 1625 Gantner, 1756 Lancaster to name a few all tend to go heavy for most but not all growers. If you want to go heavy over the chart start with the known over the chart producers, the rest is up to you to make a difference!

10/20/2015 4:36:41 PM

Muddy Waters

Definitely genetics plays a huge role but without the right water calcium and you can cheat the genetics Out have a lot of its ability to go heavy.

10/20/2015 4:57:17 PM

Muddy Waters

I got to stop voice texting but I think you get the point

10/20/2015 4:58:10 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

2015 results. Top 150 pumpkins - 138 to chart or over
Top 150 pumpkins- 22 to chart or light

10/20/2015 5:31:03 PM

a couple things to consider here, the chart may be a little off on the bigger pumpkins, but it really doesn't matter because it is all relative anyway, the scale never lies. 2nd to achieve more mass the shells are thicker so naturally they will be heavier then what is expected for their size, I would expect this trend to continue because of the limiting factors I stated earlier.

10/20/2015 6:23:10 PM

Wi

I've been growing since 2006 and have never grown a light pumpkin (I consider -2% a chart pumpkin).

I do believe there are some secrets here. At this point a few of them may be well kept. Everything in our patch was heavy this year and considerably so. And in my opinion we didn't grow heavy genetics aside from the 1916.

I do not necessarily have a firm answer, but feel the primary factors are as follows also in the following order:

Genetics
Environment (climate)
Watering practices

Then there are more such as fertilizing practices. Or lack of fertilizing practices :)

I think guys are figuring it out. I think those guys are starting to talk and others will benefit from that information as well.

10/20/2015 7:00:27 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

We weighed 4 pumpkins this year, 3 of them were 2% to 3% heavy. The biggest was 11% light. All had some 2009 genes. The one that went light was short on nitrogen early, yellow leaves. I waited until it was beach ball size before fertilizing so it wouldn't abort. so I think fertility was the issue for us.

10/20/2015 7:23:58 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

well i guess the poor guy should have asked how to build a tripod or what cover crop to use or what kind of tiller will i buy because these seem to be about the only type of questions you can get a real answer to on this learning site...ahaaaaaa

10/20/2015 7:31:30 PM

bliss,n.y.- heart of Wyoming County

eat five meals a day--lol

10/20/2015 7:40:02 PM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

I say it's genetic s more Than grower I have had nice and heavy to the right and nice and light to the left... Some things might help the % sway however I feed everything the same I don't give any special treatments to any one plant. My watering system doesn't allow me to alter each plant separately.

10/20/2015 7:51:35 PM

stoughton WI

we went with all heavy in our patch this year except the 2009, but if you go by the new chart the 2009 did go heavy I believe. but our biggest kin went 2% heavy grown off the 2009 everything else in the patch went 8% heavy or better, I don't know what the contributing factor is here but we added potassium this year, 50 lbs of 0-0-50 we grew 1756 howel/jolivette (20%), 1692 McMullen (27%), 2323 meier (14%), 1916 barron (20%), 2009 Wallace (-2%) and 754 howell/jolivette (9%) and all of them are fed the same

10/20/2015 8:22:40 PM

50 Acres

If there are more and more going heavy, perhaps the chart must be adjusted every 2 or 3 yrs.

10/20/2015 8:23:51 PM

aurora, IL

I agree with the idea of pumpkins that go heavy do to genetics makes a BIG differences. I grew two pumpkins this year: 504 Chandler 1% heavy(Rocky; 1513 Sherwood(2% heavy) x self) and 438 Chandler 13% heavy(Terminator; 1916 Barron(20% heavy) x self).

10/20/2015 9:19:53 PM

aurora, IL

Both are my personal best! :)

10/20/2015 9:20:42 PM

Corryton, TN

I have to agree that genetics is a part of the equation and give me a thick walled fruit anytime but something that is being overlooked is simple math and shape. A cube of solid pumpkin flesh with an OTT 100" will weigh more than a 1"x1"x98" block of the same pumpkin flesh. Both have a 100 OTT.

Take a large mixing bowl and do an OTT as it normally sits. Then invert it and do the same. CC will be the same but depending on the bowl size and shape the numbers will astound you. My bowl had 11" difference. It didn't gain or loose weight. 11" +/- difference on a 1500 pound fruit is about 75 pounds.

OTT measurements do not account for the air space around the stem and blossom ends, under the bowl lip. Many of the largest pumpkins are shaped similar to an inverted bowl. Little air space.

No magic potion here. Use the chart as an estimation tool.

10/21/2015 9:16:32 AM

Corryton, TN

Dang it. 1 x 1 x 98 is not correct. Should be 1"x1"x31" for an OTT of 100.

10/21/2015 9:34:35 AM

Germany

Exactly, what brotherdave explained using a mixing bowl as an example is true for pumpkins as well. Last year I had done this analysis using a pumpkin, I had determined its OTT data depending on the positioning of the fruit.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=230682

10/21/2015 9:52:15 AM

Plymouth, Mass.

luck and genetics...hopefully I have both next year. I appreciate growers weighing in.

10/21/2015 12:23:38 PM

Netherlands

Through testing here, water has nothing to do with it at all. Not enough water and your pumpkin simply doesn't grow as much, but has nothing to do with it going heavy.
We had a grower here in Holland this year that had extreme flooding. His plants were waterlogged. One went 10% light and the other 20% light. The same holds true for several other Dutch pumpkins this year, but also experiments I have done with marrows and field pumpkins.
Watering is not an issue.

10/21/2015 12:29:31 PM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

I hate air bags..

10/21/2015 12:32:34 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

when you see results from the same patch,same grower over 3 years what does this tell you?
Year(1) -2%,-12%,+1%
Year(2)-4%,-3%,-2%,+2%
Year(3)+15%,+7%,+17%,+7%

10/21/2015 1:08:40 PM

Georgetown, Ontario

It maybe has nothing to do with it but this year I had 2 pumpkins go heavy and 2 pumpkins go light. The 4 plants were grown back to back in pairs. Each pair had one heavy and one light. Same soil, water, fertilizing, environmental conditions etc. The only difference was the 2 heavy ones I was able to ramp the soil up along the main vine so that the main was a foot above the natural grade and they had major roots going into the ground right at the pumpkin stem and all the surrounding secondaries. It's not that they grew bigger, they were just heaviest % to the chart. My biggest (1370 lbs) was actually the one that went the lightest %. My middle two were the heaviest to chart and my biggest and smallest were lightest %. I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it but that's one thing I noticed this year. DONKIN, when I see results like those above I would assume that grower did something different in year 3 and it would be great if they let us know what it was.

10/21/2015 1:32:26 PM

Germany

Year(1) -9%, +11%
Year(2) -5%, +3%
Year(3) -12%, +14%

In all cases pumpkins from plants next to each other and in each case pumpkins of similar size OTT-wise.

10/21/2015 1:42:16 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

Yes Mr. Pumpkin Shepherd! Is this not a site to educate?Every pumpkin grower in the world visits this site. Time to start sharing info other than what length 4x4 do i need to build a tripod...lol.

10/21/2015 2:00:43 PM

Mn

Donkin - Can you show me the link to your detailed description on how to grow a 1811 lb pumpkin. I can't find it posted anywhere. Thank you QTip

10/21/2015 3:59:39 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Ouch!

10/21/2015 4:08:36 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

ZZZZZZZZZZZing

10/21/2015 4:55:31 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

the man is a 3rd year grower looking for some information that he can apply to his patch. Everyone knows i got lucky with the 1811 and my pumpkins do not go +16% over the chart so i can't comment on something i know nothing about!
Judging from this years results and the amount of pumpkins gone wayyyyy over the chart someone must have some advice for the man or did everyone just get lucky like me?

10/21/2015 5:22:57 PM

southwest MO

2014 had 43 of the top 50 pumpkins go to or over chart. 86%
2015 had 44 of the top 50 pumpkins go to or over chart. 88%
Both years the 50th place pumpkin was approx. 1,700 lbs.
I'm not a statistician or a math professor but may be the regression at the top of the chart could use some tweaking.
Things seem to even out a lot more in the 1200 to 1400 lbs range.

Just some musings from a guy that will never grow one big enough to worry about any way

10/21/2015 5:59:14 PM

Piqua, Ohio

I like seeds who's pollinater went heavy. My pumpkins are usually 10% heavy. I think cell division in the first few days after pollination is a factor. Carl isn't your secret maple syrup?

10/21/2015 6:39:07 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

not me Josh. I think that was Jim Bryson ;)lol

10/21/2015 6:44:15 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Ahhhhh,,, the old maple syrup and tree frog thing = extra heavy:)

10/21/2015 7:23:00 PM

Michigan,up North

man, i was all excited to get my dirty hands on some 2032 Mathison seeds ,untill i looked at GPC Weigh-off Results 2015: Pumpkin they all went lite ,,,oh well i be happy to hit 1500lbs

10/21/2015 11:41:11 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Donkin, I think your wrong. There's lots of info being handed down on this site. It sounds like your after a detailed plan on how to grow a big one. No plan exists. Just to many variables. Best advise to learn how to grow is find a mentor near you. Regarding going heavy I'm with big city grower. I think its genetics more than anything. I've had heavy and light come from the same patch. Everything is done the same way at my patch. All plants treated the same. I don't believe its watering practices. The perfect soil is 50% Soil, 25% Oxygen and 25% Water. I would be willing to bet money that most top growers are close to this. Ron Root

10/22/2015 1:18:23 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

So you want to get ignorant Ron? I have no problem with that!!! If you can't answer the question for the man...take a walk.

10/22/2015 6:20:41 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

actually this was very educational!. Two uncalled for personnel attacks on me in one thread!! See how much you learned from one post Rowe Fields?

10/22/2015 6:50:51 AM

Germany

On a positive note


Carl already posted some of the secrets of going heavy:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=221575

There´s more than just one hint in this single diary entry.

10/22/2015 7:09:52 AM

Germany

For those who need a translation:

- hard work (gym or patch...doesn´t make a big difference)
- enjoy a cold drink (in addition to working hard you should really enjoy what you are doing)
- share your passion with other growers (that´s what a diary entry basically does)
- last but not least, genetics is also mentioned in this diary entry.

10/22/2015 7:16:40 AM

Plymouth, Mass.

My 2nd season I grew 716 Rowe 14 -10% & 1056 Rowe 14 -10%
crosses were 1650 Sproule ( -11%) and 1872 Wallace (-12%)

3rd season....817 Rowe 15 -9% & 1159.5 Rowe 15 -12%
crosses were 1189 Steven/Hopkins -1% and 1781 Zyweic + 5%

* I will try and get heavy genetics next year.

* From what I have read there are no slam dunks when growing.

Two additional questions:
1.Does patch size have any correlation in going heavy?
2.Does the amount of Calcium added during growing season have any effect?

10/22/2015 1:03:48 PM

Corryton, TN

Can't speak for anyone else. FYI mine were grown like commercial plants <500 square ft and not weeded. 1 drip line on each side of stump. watered occasionally but there were times it got way to dry. Fruit set on main were controlled crosses and some open pollinations on sides for sales. 1 seed family went consistently light. the balance 5-29% heavy. Planted several from each cross. No calcium fed here but ph is 7.1. My style may explain why I'm not a heavy hitter

10/22/2015 3:31:15 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Rowefields, Is your soil balanced? I think that is one important part of going heavy. Or at least not going light. I've seen no correlation regarding patch size to percent heavy in my patch. I tissue test to find my levels of nutrient's. In my experience its been really hard to change calcium levels during the growing season. I try to have that in ample amounts in the soil. Ron Root

10/22/2015 5:23:36 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Or we just move to the state of Wisconsin or Ohio.

10/22/2015 5:29:28 PM

Deer Park, WI

Pumpking- its a rare moment that I bust into audible laughter over what I read on the internet. Your posts gave me this experience. In fact, my 9 year old sitting next to me asked me "what dad?"

bambam- dont move to wisconsin. Its cold here. as i've stated previously, mother nature dealt us a royal flush this year. For the non-poker players out there, its equivalent to winning the lottery.

Chris S comments above are spot on, as are others who cite genetics. Genetics rule the day when it comes to % variability. anyone remember the 898 Knauss??? environment and other factors come in well behind. and indeed there are practices some are becoming keen to....

In the essence of fulfilling the educational aspect of this post, fruit shape, fruit wall thickness, and fruit wall density/composition are all factors that contribute to % variability. The only known influence we can have over any of these with remote certainty is the choice of genetics planted.

Lastly, in the interest of trivia and education, we're led to believe that a pumpkin is 90-95% water. The amount of water stored inside a pumpkin is a function of cell number and volume. Interestingly, starch is also a component of fruit. Starch is more dense than water (drop a corn kernel -75% starch- in a glass of water and see if it floats or sinks). More starch=more relative weight. how do we get more starch? more cells and more cell volume.

10/22/2015 6:28:16 PM

stoughton WI

there are a lot of factors that go into growing a large pumpkin a many have been mentioned, soil is #1 in my opinion, but you also need to be able to read the plant and a lot of times it lets you know what it may need or not need. consistant watering helps. ever since I acquired 4 300 gal tanks, watering is more consistant. most of all you need to find out what works the best for you and your patch. it also helps to be able to talk to other experienced growers that can guide you what kind of things you could use in your patch. this isn't really a guide to get heavy kins but may help in some way. these are just some things that have helped us...

10/22/2015 6:31:18 PM

Ukiah, Mendocino county, California

I very much enjoyed the information and humor of this post.

10/23/2015 12:16:29 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

so am i ...ahahaaaa

10/23/2015 6:21:36 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=249879
Here are another few hidden secrets to going heavy Pumpking..lol
HARD work
Share your passion
Last but not least share Your genetics...lol

10/23/2015 6:56:08 AM

Germany

:)

...this genetics thing...scratching my head.

:-)))

10/23/2015 7:02:04 AM

Germany

Not sure if you are aware of having pointed out two important things at the same time with saying "share Your genetics", though...at least in my brain two thoughts developed more or less simultaneously, the fun part associated with this pic (oh well, will the next generation go light or heavy???), because having fun is what pumpkin growing is all about, and the really serious part of so many previous discussions (genetics...seeds...sharing)...so I agree with you in both aspects, even though you might have had only one of them in mind.

10/23/2015 7:10:01 AM

Muddy Waters

watering is definitely a factor & genetics.There is a combination of ideal things that need to take place.Sunshine/water/calcium/boron/.I grow one 2% heavy & one 4% heavy and one 6% light all with the same conditions & feeding.So how the chromosomes line up in each & every seed is a factor.I think some folks think every seed in a great seed have the same potential.This is not true.There just like people.One tall brother one fat brother.So picking the right seed is only half the battle & still a risk.The chromosome need to line up for the perfect kin.

10/23/2015 8:05:15 AM

N.c.

Donkin's interest in blossom end activity has helped me come to the conclusion that the easiest way to chart heavier fruit may be through ensuring or trying to ensure uniform wall thickness across the entire fruit.

10/23/2015 10:52:19 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

he could have at least put a nice orange night dress on it....lol

10/23/2015 11:03:19 AM

N.c.

Donkin I do not think thigmotropism is the most promising avenue, but it never hurts to experiment (a little). Products that can increase cell division mostly uniformly across the pumpkin and mostly uniformly delay senescence should be considered.

10/23/2015 11:44:06 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

check out the offspring of the 1676 Daletas Condo!

10/23/2015 11:52:10 AM

Utah

fabulous thread ! can we keep it going ?

10/23/2015 12:52:36 PM

Germany

Right, wall thickness, that´s the key, but how does enhanced cell division influence wall thickness? Will the additional cells influence this dimension of interest, or will the additional cells align in the other two dimensions, or will they contribute to all 3 dimensions equally? I think Matt could find out about that either this year or a year later, depending on how many data he will receive from people who have tried the Anthesis treatment of the fruit. Some kind of statistic analysis should be capable of showing in which direction the additional cells will influence fruit growth (bigger or thicker or both) by analyzing all Anthesis data points versus the "regular" behavior of other pumpkins grown of each seed stock which goes into the Anthesis analysis (example: 20 pumpkins grown off the 2009 without Anthesis, average +5%, 2 data points with Anthesis +9%, +11%; 20 pumpkins grown off the 2323, average +8%, 3 data points with Anthesis +7%, +9%, +13%...etc.). Systematic places above average should finally confirm enhanced wall thickness by Anthesis treatment, wheres systematic places below average would confirm enhanced size growth (with less than proportional contribution to wall thickness). Just my opinion, I´m really curious to see some results from Matt´s analyses of this year´s results.
Other treatment in order to enhance cell division (key words: sink activity, pruning pattern etc.) might then have similar influence. That would give at least some kind of explanation how the grower, in addition to picking the genetically perfect seed, could have had some influence on the +/-% of the fruit grown on this plant. Same patch, same soil, different pruning strategy...who knows if there is some influence on the subtle differences which finally make one of those pumpkins go a bit heavier or lighter than the other one?

10/23/2015 1:18:04 PM

way over thinking here just add 3 inches to your buddys fabric tape at the start of tape each week he will swear his secret works at end of year

10/23/2015 2:40:53 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

if you add inches it goes light when it hits the scale. Yep way over thinking.lol

10/23/2015 2:58:24 PM

Wallingford,CT

Perhaps you should consider using a better tool (chart) to evaluate whether the pumpkins are heavy or light.

10/23/2015 3:07:16 PM

Deer Park, WI

I'd like to know if there are discernible differences in density of the tissue itself of if its solely shape and wall thickness. if i had more than one giant on my property, i'd take perfect 1" cubes and weigh them to investigate if there are density fluctuations.

10/23/2015 4:54:57 PM

N.c.

Jose you would be interested in the specific gravity I think. Why would you need a perfect one inch cube?

10/23/2015 5:06:59 PM

southwest MO

I think there is defineatley something to density. Could it be that the pumpkins at the top of the chart go heavy because something in the pumpkin (around 390") begins to change to help support all that weight? Even running a regression on the last 3 years still it shows this trend. I thought maybe it was just the older chart- but the trend is still there around 390". If you want a more accurate chart maybe playing with the weighting will help the top of the line fit better.

10/23/2015 5:17:18 PM

Deer Park, WI

a one inch cube represents a standard to which one could compare samples. Specific gravity is indeed a ratio of densities, but usually standardized to water.

The unknown there is differences in % moisture and other components, but also helps illustrate the point...are % variances to charts also influenced by density/composition fluctuations???

10/23/2015 5:27:35 PM

southwest MO

I think based on the current data the short answer would be probably!

10/23/2015 5:36:25 PM

southwest MO

You could get your 2 perfect cubes... (maybe use a sample spoon like you would use to take a soil core sample) weigh them both then do a total solids (dry them for a day or two at 105C) and weigh them again. You could at least then begin to draw some comparisons.

10/23/2015 5:43:15 PM

southwest MO

This would also help to show the water holding capacity of the flesh

10/23/2015 5:44:59 PM

Austin MN

So I was not going to post because I don't want to get every one saying I'm wrong but I agree 100% with Joe and Chris I know they study this!!! Bring in NYC this week one thing I picked up fast on is it seems the time you water and staying consistent is very very very dam important to go heavy! :)

10/23/2015 6:05:26 PM

Austin MN

Just my two cents.

10/23/2015 6:05:57 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

great info don't you think Rowe Fields! Since we are all just pumpkin growers maybe we can get some input from the pros! How about it Ron (+16%) Josiah(+19%) and Steve Sperry(+19%). Maybe you guy's can share a few tips for the man????

10/23/2015 8:01:45 PM

Hanson Ma

Donkin. First off I don't know you and I don't know what your beef is with the Wallaces or theirs with you. I do know Ron and Steve personally over the last couple of years. They are both very willing to give information and help to any who ask. I don't know why they don't post often I assume they are busy with their lives. It's not their responsibility to post here. I have witnessed it and been the person they were willing to talk with and help. Check your ego at the door and if you don't have anything more helpful to contribute stop posting. Rowefields is also a friend of mine and I'm not sure this thread has been helpful with all the bickering that has gone back and forth. this will be my one and only post to this thread. and I also feel the people who go at Donkin should leave it for your own personal thread and not high jack other threads.

10/23/2015 8:58:36 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Disclaimer- I am a lightweight when it come to growing pumpkins. It is a wonderful diversion that gives me great satisfaction and pleasure regardless of the outcome. I can tell you RoweFields that you will become more enlightened when you reach out to growers directly in your area opposed to posting here. Don't get me wrong, BP is an awesome site and there are many contributors who will gladly share their knowledge and tips to attaining a personal best. Then there are the Wallaces, Daletas, Dills and Youngs ( both ) etc. who are more than happy to provide you with the methods that lead to their success. I used to be ( and missing it ) the fundraiser for my home club, and the heavy hitters that I reached out to surprised me with their knowledge and support in terms of substance and information. All it takes is an e-mail or two. You will find this community is more than willing to share whatever secrets there are to achieving a personal best.

10/23/2015 9:50:21 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Joe, I've always wondered if there was anything to gain by using ultra sound on a pumpkin. It just might show different density's of the tissue. Plus where they are located on the pumpkin.

10/24/2015 1:27:10 AM

southwest MO

One more idea about going heavy since that is what this thread was supposed to be about.... The long steady growth rate and the amount of days theses things are still moving the tape. That is another thing that pumpkins that go over 1,700 pounds seem to have in common. Watering habits, controlling climate, balancing soil are all things that contribute to maximizing the genetic potential of these plants. IMHO it is 90%+ genetic.

10/24/2015 5:12:37 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

as far as i'm concerned this has been one of the best discussions in a long time! Andy if you miss fundraising for the club just give Jeff a call..I'm sure he would love to hear from you !!

10/24/2015 8:10:52 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

Condo..Pumpking..Joze your posts are very much appreciated! Always something to think about! One gentleman i do miss on the boards is Big Kahunna !! Always something very interesting from Russ and i can tell you know that i have taken many a tips from him in the past and applied it to my patch !!

10/24/2015 8:38:03 AM

N.c.

2% heavy, 2% light, I think we all agree due to the vagueness of taping that that is to chart. Up to 10% heavy, 10% light is conceivably due 90% to genetics. However 16%, 20%, 30% heavy? That portion of heavy above 10% heavy is, in my opinion, percentage wise heavily under grower control. The low hanging fruit in this situation (according to a report coming out of NYC and independently confirmed by a great grower) seems to be the manipulation of the percentage water makes up in the total soil volume.

10/24/2015 9:39:41 AM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

Grow a 1625.5 Gantner I doubt any will go light to the chart.. Any grower any dirt any state let's all plant them and see... However I only have 2 and those will be planted here....

10/24/2015 10:05:50 AM

N.c.

Hmm, in that case perhaps the 775 Gehweiler would be a good alternative?

10/24/2015 10:46:54 AM

Lebanon, Oregon

There is a lot of emphasis in "going heavy". I personally try to plant seeds of heavy genetics thinking maybe that will win. I haven't made it to a weigh off in two years. I've been thinking that when I do I would rather have a 476 OTT +1% than a 410 OTT +20% any day.

10/24/2015 12:32:27 PM

Netherlands

If you have made an estimate table (I have), you will notice that once you plot the top weights on a graph, the dots are all over the place, while at the lower weights they stick quite close to the curve.

I studied the GPC chart intensively last year and had several chats with Scott who made it. The top end is incorrect. We both know that. Some of the ones with large OTTs are going light, but way more are going heavy. If you were to fix the chart (which is a lot of work!), the really big fluctuations will disappear.

As pumpkins get bigger, it is harder to measure, weird shapes become more common and every little difference is multiplied.

Then there is measuring error (different methods per weigh-off), difference in shapes, difference in flesh thickness (even within one pumpkin and we assume an average pumpkin) and flesh density.

All in all, % heavy is much too overated. For all the pumpkins over 1800 lbs, consider taking 8% heavy off (correction to the chart) and see what happens.

10/24/2015 12:51:39 PM

Netherlands

For those who don't have the time to take off the 8%, you will notice that most pumpkins will now go a few procent heavy to a few procent light. At that size, we call that "to chart". Now you can pick out the odd ones. Even the most extreme ones are now within normal boundaries.

10/24/2015 12:55:33 PM

Germany

Grower or genetics? There would be an experiment which could help find an answer, but many growers would have to join this experiment (and I doubt that it would happen). You all know that a new OTT chart had been developed because in the past 5 years (or something like that) too many pumpkins had been too heavy (too many % over the old chart from 2005). Seeds with genetics from before 2005 could now give an answer. If nowadays growers (at least 400-500 growers) grew seeds from 2003 or 2004 and took these pumpkins to a weigh-off, we could easily find out whether the OTT vs weight behavior this set of pumpkins would match the 2005 chart or the 2013 chart (the former would confirm the influence of genetics, the latter would confirm predominant influence of the grower).

10/24/2015 2:35:16 PM

Germany

Of course, a pretty random seed choice is a must for such an experiment.

10/24/2015 2:37:04 PM

Wallingford,CT

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Attachments/Team-Pumpkin_2013_Enhanced_OTT_Chart.pdf

charts are at the end

10/24/2015 3:30:10 PM

Ohio

Pumpking... I grew some old seeds, they were squash though.My squash seed was from 1998. It was 230" ott. According to the GPC chart and Team Pumpkin chart, it est. at 275#. According to Andy Wolf's Chart(2012), it est. at 279#. According to the 2005 chart, it est. at 265#. The squash actually weighed 310.6# (10% heavy). I think the charts are pretty close, with in a couple of %. I also grew some other squash that were 1990's genetics, those were close as well. According to the charts, the ott was with in 4#, either way. Still came in 16% heavy. But this may be the case for smaller fruit, under 1000#. Just my thoughts.

10/24/2015 6:54:27 PM

southwest MO

That is the same thing I noticed Brad when I plotted the numbers... It's the number one thing folks in this community breed for...The ott is recorded next to every weight so this tells you how important it is. Did you notice the diversion beginning about 390"? I still contend something is happening inside the pumpkin at these upper weights that effects density. All in all
an 1800 pounder is an awesome specimen no matter the chart. I just find the data interesting especially since there is so much more of it since the 2013 season.

10/24/2015 7:36:31 PM

N.c.

@ Garden Rebel: I looked at your diary. How important do you think consistent and correct watering might be?

10/24/2015 7:50:25 PM

Lebanon, Oregon

We had zero water from mother nature this Summer(Oregon) and only had drip irrigation on a timer. Had consistent water but not enough. Fifteen minutes, four times per day. It usually wouldn't make it the full 15 minutes. I wish I could of increased water but run on a nearly empty well all Summer. When I tilled after pulling the plants it stirred up dust. Will utilize a few large storage tanks next year. For me, correct watering was a stress all Summer and will be one of my goals next year.

10/24/2015 9:31:36 PM