Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Prairie Du Sac Wi

Nooo.my 1317 plant has clear signs on some form of mosaic virus on all the new vine growth. Its been showing signs for a week now. The pumpkin is dap 16 and showing no sings of having the virus yet. It is my largest fruit in my patch so far and is growing well. The other plants show no sign if it yet. I don't know if I can bring myself to pull the plant...here's why... last year I grew my new pb on a plant that got mosaic later on in the life of the plant,it showed mostly on the new growth of the main vine, and... my other plant last year only 60 feet away never got the virus. So I wonder if the damage is done by having a plant with the virus in the patch for a week now. I have lots of cuc bugs that move between my plants daily. they've been hard to controll this year. Can some plants resist mosaic?
My biggest question is ....do I pull the plant,which might make a grown man cry a little....

7/16/2015 4:44:41 PM

Pumpking

Germany

Spray the plant, so that all the insects which feed on that plant will die. This should limit the odds of them spreading the virus. As far as I know, there aren´t AGs which are resistent to mosaic virus infection.
This year I´m growing my 298 from last year, which had a mosaic infection some days after pollination, but I had started 10 seeds and all of them produced healthy seedlings (and I wanted to grow the fruit to produce mature seeds...I had crossed my 907 Wagler with a 282 Scherber). Just pay ahellofalot attention that you never ever touch any of your other plants after manipulating on the infected plant. Clean your hands with methylated spirits and with milk (and do the same with the knife or whatever you use...or use different tools for the other plants).
Pulling the infected plant could cause headaches and nightmares to you if, after 1 or 2 weeks, you notice that the other plants also already got the virus...you could have kept your best plant.

7/16/2015 4:53:27 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Matt D. will chime in here but I feel your pain.....

7/16/2015 6:21:16 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

Great advice, pumpking . It will help ALOT. Also I think its great that you like answering so many questions for others. :-)
So.cal. I hope matt D dose see this...I searched mosaic on here..and matt D was a good portion of the results.lol. and I read it all.! I just need to top 973. With or without virus.!!! Thank you

7/16/2015 6:48:56 PM

Duster

San Diego

Mosaic is a bummer, had it probably 40% of all my years growing in various locations. If you get it before polination, game over for sure. If you get it after fruit is set and fruit is 20 days old or so, fruit should be fine, but plant will degenerate faster than normal, usually ending late season growth and stopping fruit growth early. If you get disease real late, when fruit is 40 plus days old, usually does not affect much.

Once a plant is infected, any bug that bites the infected plant and then bites a normal plant will transfer the disease. I'd keep your plant because it might have already been transferred to another plant already, just spray it a lot. Good chance it will spread to others though. In the end, it is your call and your patch!

7/16/2015 9:26:08 PM

Muddy Waters

Its a gamble either way,BUTTT dont pull the 1317!!!!!

7/16/2015 10:20:11 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

Thank you guys. I'm going to spray and ride it out. I'm happy with my decision!!! Bubba don't wory the 1317 will live to see another day.lol.after having to pull the 1947, its the least I can do.lol... I only want to hit 1000 lbs so sick plants or not I'm going to make it happen!!!!!! Lol best of luck to all of you. I'll post updates in my diary....

7/16/2015 10:39:41 PM

Somebody

San Diego

Can you grow in the same spot after a season with mosaic?

7/16/2015 10:48:08 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

I just had a thought on it, the 1317 plant had the virus at about dap 10 after pollination. And as said the key is to have a fruit 20 days old because cell splitting stops...so this will be a great test to see how slow the virus moves through the plant depending were it may have started... hmmmm , if the point of infection is far from the fruit, the fruit may still develope even with the visual onset at such a young age. I might be poopin in the wind but we will find out,good,or bad....! Lol

7/16/2015 10:58:16 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

Hi. Somebody... from what I've learned there are 13 or so kinds of mosaic virus. Some don't effect your next year. Some can live in the soil for 20 years. So its best to get it tested and confirm what kind it is so you know what to do right the next year. Note to self...lol

7/16/2015 11:13:01 PM

Duster

San Diego

last year my fruit was 15 days old or so when mosaic appeared, fruit was always fine and never showed any sign of disease. Plant became less heat tolerant and plant was fried about 30 days before previous years. So I lost a whole month of end season growth.

7/16/2015 11:13:25 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

Thank you. Team Faith, for pointing that out, last year my fruit didn't seem to be affected by it at all ,with a late onset of it. The only thing that sucked was the vines stopped growing. But this is a differant story. More along the lines of what you experienced. Oh crap.. lol

7/16/2015 11:27:38 PM

Connecticut

Hi catond-

I can feel your mosaic virus pain as I have had to deal with it 2 of the last 3 years. Reading over the information you provided I would suggest you just ride it out. If one plant has the virus it will typically spread to the plants very quickly, so even if you are not seeing mottled leaves right now, I would not be surprised if you start seeing them over the next week or so. Not to put down other ideas, but insecticides do not work fast enough as the insect vector only needs to feed for seconds to transmit the virus. Infect with aphids they only have to pierce the plant tissue to transmit the virus. Odds are also likely that the Cucumber beetles are not the main vector most likely you have what is called a Potyvirus that is transmitted by aphids. Even if you do not see aphids it only takes a few "dirty bugs" to pass through the area to infect your plants. Since you are seeing a slow progression my guess is you did not have many infected insects on the initial pass through the patch.

Getting virus did open my eyes to is that pumpkins after 20 days no longer have actively dividing cells as these pumpkins (20+days old) do not seem to become infected with virus in the traditional way with streaks of color or become misshapen. This lead to days of research and actually resulted in my "Anthesis" spray so there can be some good out of a bad situation. In your case your 16 day old pumpkin sounds like it will make it out of the main infection time-frame. However, the plant will not be so lucky. First it will stunt growth and then it will start to burn. Not much you can do as the plant would need an immune system to counter act the virus. (It is hard to kill something that is basically not living to start with.)

7/16/2015 11:39:35 PM

Connecticut

Part 2...

If you have a real concern I suggest you get a virus screen done to identify what stain of virus (or viruses) you have. This would be useful information to determine what the pressure may be for next year. Some viruses are more persistent than others. It sounds like you saw this post already but I just wanted to make this suggestion to you. I also recommended you scout the area for potential virus host plants (such as Poke-weed) and do your best to remove them now.

It seems I have become the Mosaic "expert" as I have had to deal with it and did some extensive research into this classification of patch problems. I can say that as of this typing I am virus free in the pumpkin patch and I think it has a lot to do with the three part system I implemented this year...

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=241198
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=241402
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=241403

Lastly, if you (or anyone else) have more virus related questions please post them and I will do my best to help out and answer them.

7/16/2015 11:39:49 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

Wow. OK. Thank you Matt for taking the time to post. It means a lot...I will send a sample in, and keep posting the results of how it is affecting my patch in my diary.....maybe we all can learn from a crappy situation.. best of luck to everyone!!!!! 1000 lbs...here I come..

7/17/2015 12:02:49 AM

moro (sergio)

Cologne Brescia Italy

The virus can stay in the soil with the rest of the
plant infected, some part of vine and rot, that
It can return in the next year, or the virus
Disappear during the winter?
Can i to grow in the same place where the year
Before plants were infected from virus???

7/17/2015 1:42:28 AM

Muddy Waters

According to Michigan State the virus can carry over in some of the seeds but not necessarily all of them.For that reason I never grow from a plant that had a virus.

7/17/2015 7:16:40 AM

Duster

San Diego

You should be able to grow in same place, as far as i know, the only way you can get the virus is from a new bug bite that is carrying the virus from an infected weed or plant

7/17/2015 11:46:32 AM

Donkin

nOVA sCOTIA

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=238936

7/17/2015 12:23:00 PM

Connecticut

catond- No problem, I spent a lot of time researching this particular topic and I am always willing to share the information. Hopefully other growers can build on what I share to benefit everyone. I will say that 1,000 pounds is possible, I managed 923.5 pounds on a plant that was severely infected by July 27th... http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=224654

moro (sergio)- In order for a virus to carry over the winter it needs an over wintering host. This can be a perennial plant that has an underground root structure (such as Pokeweed) or some viruses can over winter in nematodes that can be in the soil. Dagger nematodes are the type to be particularly concerned with. I had a screen of my soil done (which is expensive and takes the lab quite some time to perform) and the results were "below detectable levels. They can not say "none" but basically there were basically none in the sample I gave them. If you have a non-persistent virus then you can grow in the same spot next year with no immediate threat of infection. In my case I had lost everything to virus and then the next year in the same spot I grew a personal best. (In my case I had Zucchini Yellow Mosaic.)

7/17/2015 1:08:37 PM

Connecticut

Part 2

Bubba Presley- Regarding viruses ability to carry over in seeds, yes it does happen, however the percent infected is actually quite low. If a seed is infected it should show itself early in the plant growth phase. One of the articles that I have found stated "The average rate of seedborn transmission of ZYMV was 1.4%" and they were testing hulless pumpkins.
Source link: https://w3.avignon.inra.fr/dspace/bitstream/2174/209/1/9_19_Tobias.pdf

This article shows some different seed samples and the seed transmission rate of ZYMV with different levels of virus severity noted in the actual fruit. Many readings came back at 0.00% and the highest was only 15.34%.
Source link: http://cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cgc/cgc26/cgc26-12.pdf

Other information: http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=6&p=406259

Hope this helps.

7/17/2015 1:08:48 PM

Torrance, Ca.

All this mosaic talk is giving me nightmares form last year.

I haven't been able to sleep since the thread started.

Matt,,, all good so far this year and getting closer to day 20 with no mosaic what so ever;););)

Hope I didn't just jink myself.

7/17/2015 1:56:51 PM

Connecticut

So.Cal.Grower- Nice to hear you are still virus free. I agree it can be quite a nervous time of scouting and many second looks of "is that virus?".

Not to add more worry, but for "Anthesis" treated pumpkins since the cell division phase is extended you have to wait about 26 days to be in the clear. Since my goal was to increase the duration (and rate) of cell division this lengthens the time that the pumpkins could get virus by about six days.

7/17/2015 3:13:55 PM

WiZZy

Little-TON - Colorado

Hopefully CoJoe chimez in here aZ well, he had some studies/testing done, and mitagation. I beleive he is trying out this patch again this year... Good Thread All

7/17/2015 3:24:38 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Thanks for that Matt,,,,,,,,,,,, I did treat the 1719 fruit so now looks like I have more to stress about! lol

Scouting though every day and any molting leaves get an extra look for sure.

I think flying over in the plane and killing all bugs for a mile around the patch really did help.

7/17/2015 3:28:59 PM

cojoe

Colorado

Ive had mosaic for 4 seas0ns. Its a tough advisory. I made the mistake of letting a couple of plant with it go and haven't been able to get rid of it since.My advice is pull the plant aa couple days after spraying it with merit or safari.Really work on weed control. Its carried over by weeds some don't show symptoms so who knows which are hosts.Also if the carryover rate by seed is 1.4% think how many seeds some weed species produce.At 1000 seed/weed is 14 infected weed plants in the future.Matt uses high quality weed barrier in his patch-that's prob. very effectice for prevention.I had a long gourd plant get mosaic this year didn't know that was possible.Ive got matermelon potyvirus.

7/17/2015 5:55:03 PM

cojoe

Colorado

'watermelon"

7/17/2015 5:58:37 PM

Connecticut

cojoe- Do you know if you had Watermelon Mosaic 1 or Watermelon Mosaic 2? It seems that watermelon mosaic 1 is now being identified as a strain of papaya ring spot virus.

Here is also another good link to learn more about aphid transmitted (potyvirus) viruses:
http://plantpath.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/fact-sheets/pdfs/circ1184.pdf

Also, alternate weed host are typically asymptomatic meaning that the actual weed host does not exhibit any signs of virus even though it is a residual host plant. Many times in weed species it is not the seed that is responsible for the transmission but the actually woody tuber that provides live (even though dormant) plant material for the virus to winter over in.

Oddly enough the major concerns for watermelons are the bacterial disease Watermelon Fruit Blotch and the fungal disease of Gummy Stem Blight, both which are seed transmitted. The risk to growers is so high in order to purchase seeds there is a required waiver that must be completed by the purchaser for watermelon and cantaloupe seeds. Ex. http://www.harrisseeds.com/storefront/HarrisPopupTopic.aspx?t=DeptWatermelonRelease

While I do use weed barrier in my patch the "dirty plant" that has the virus is probably located outside of my patch and property. It is the required aphid vector that the virus needs to get to me pumpkin plants. My three part system had nothing to do with the actual virus and focused on the required insect vector. Prevent the insect and prevent the disease, because there is no cure.

Lastly here is some good information about WMV-2 that includes the host range... http://pvo.bio-mirror.cn/descr878.htm

7/17/2015 11:05:03 PM

moro (sergio)

Cologne Brescia Italy

Thanks a lot Matt for the explane

7/18/2015 3:09:48 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes Carl if I get a virus in a plant its gone.But everyone has to weigh whats best for there season.Is it worth the risk?Maybe maybe not??

7/18/2015 9:26:44 PM

Donkin

nOVA sCOTIA

come on Man...give me a break.....that is not the words!

7/18/2015 9:36:30 PM

Donkin

nOVA sCOTIA

do i have to refresh your memory!

7/18/2015 9:39:44 PM

Mehdi

France

Ruben from Spain has experimented products with success. This is what he said : "The mosaic Virus has solution, only in the first week... I has 2 plants, one is perfect after give the products: Cercovin and Ridomil Gold. One day Cercovin and next day Ridomil Gold!!!"

7/18/2015 10:19:46 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Mehdi, so your saying ridomil and cercovin helps with mosaic?

7/18/2015 10:47:40 PM

Prairie Du Sac Wi

So much amazing info, thank you all. I'll keep posting to my diary how my patch is effected by having a plant infected in my patch. So far I just don't see it In the other plants yet. I've been spraying, (for bugs)and the fruit on the 1317 still grows. Just not as fast as some would like. So far its still the biggest fruit but not for long, the fruits on the 1399 are about to hit dap 15 tomorrow, then two days till dap 20 on the 1317. I got in a little over my head trying to grow in all 6 GPC category's, next year I may grow only two plants, instead of 26, ( 4 AG 1 squash 3 melon 4 FP 12 maters 2 LG and more) doh!! But I said I will get a new pb in all 6, and that's still what I'm going to do.!!

7/19/2015 2:00:32 AM