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Muddy Waters

Im hearing a lot of folks doing this.I want to help everyone to do there best.


Never till fresh/shredded or even almost broken down leafs into your soil.This will tie up your nutrients for a long time.If you do it in the fall it is still a bad idea.Frozen leafs dont breakdown,there frozen.The decaying matter will cause disease issues in the spring.You need to flip your leaf pile every month or so.Once they breakdown into soil like humus you can add them to patch.Dont beleive what they tell you down the wise crack of lines.Friends dont let friends shred leafs/till & grow!!! Have a great season!!

3/16/2015 6:36:49 AM

Central NY

Now ya tell me...

3/16/2015 10:18:01 AM

Muddy Waters

Even if you have grown a 1500 lber this could be slowing you down.

3/16/2015 9:48:10 PM

Central NY

If leaves tie up Nutes can't u just give a little extra Nutes ?... I think I just like saying Nutes ...

3/16/2015 10:44:10 PM

Central NY

I always wondered if chopped leaves used up Nutes or created less effective growing space in the soil.....you know, for the Nutes

3/16/2015 10:46:33 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes But not to hot & heavy the balance is very Important.Thats why Im making my own ferts this year to have the right balance.Heres the final names of my products.
Root Keeper
Giant Grow
Giant Bloom
Bubbas Monster Maker
Marks Special Tea(made a last minute change on this one)

You could use these to help with my trickle feed feeding schedule(exclusive member only videos) that will be up soon for 2015 season.I will tell you how NOT to plant your transplants to prevent those leaves from causing disease.You can still do a lot to stop it.I hope this helps you Steve.

3/17/2015 6:43:37 AM

Quincy, CA

Wouldn't tilling in a cover crop be almost the same thing?
Putting organic material into the soil to decompose and yet most or all of the heavy growers do it.

3/17/2015 1:50:31 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

The main nutrient that is tied up by brown organic matter like leaves breaking down is nitrogen. Green organic matter has more nitrogen in it, but it will still be tied up until it is broken down. I have seen this after planting sweet corn into tilled sod and having nitrogen deficiency. My opinion is that if you have sufficient other nitrogen available it wont hurt to till in a small amount of leaves in the fall. After they break down, the soil bacteria will continue to work on them down and release nutrients throughout the summer. But I agree that composted material is better if you have it.

As far as disease problems, I can see where heavy, poorly drained clay or soils with excessive organic matter could see problems with adding fresh leaves. But in well to excessively drained sandy soils, organic matter breaks down much faster. That is due to extra oxygen in the soil, which will also retard the bad anaerobic bacteria. My soil is silt with a little sand over pure sand with a high water table. I have a hard time getting my organic matter over 2%. The only time I get soil borne disease is when I water too much: it makes the soil anaerobic. I had to dig drainage ditches and raise planting beds so most of the roots stay above the water table. I get some air borne foliar disease, rust and mildew, by being in a low valley with poor air circulation. My personal best was grown after a light spring application of oat straw bedding with some sheep manure in it. I added some 10-10-10 with it, tilled, and had no signs of nutrient deficiency or disease all season.

3/17/2015 3:15:21 PM

Muddy Waters

I didnt do the cover crop this past season and wont be doing one this year.I did it in 2013 & had it way in front of the plant.I dont want any decaying matter in my soil.It might be alright and it might not be? I dont like mights.I like for sures.

3/17/2015 6:14:14 PM

Quincy, CA

Hey Bubba, I bought some alfalfa meal for the first time this year and now you have me worried.
What's your opinion on this stuff?

3/19/2015 8:16:41 PM

Streator ,Illinois

I think that everyone is in a different boat when it comes to adding leaves ,Don't have space to store leaves till they turn to humus and have no known place in my area to get good compost without a long haul to get it. With that said I have always have added very finely mulched leaves and seen a big change in my soil over the past 10 years, always in the fall but I also add 20 pounds of blood meal and spray a heavy dose of molasses on the mulched leaves before I till them under and in the spring till I add 2 bags of alfalfa meal, not saying this the rite way but, is no the kiss of death either, I look at it as feeding my soil the best way I can for my area.
YOLO

3/20/2015 1:40:57 PM

Colorado

What you add in california in the fall doesnt compare well to what to do in michigan, Ones frozen and the other will have a lot of biological activity.Remember what Ron W says "what I do may not work in your area"

3/20/2015 4:54:33 PM

Whitehall Montana

I am no heavy hitter but my best pumpkin grew in an area that had fresh tilled in leaves with alfalfa pellets added.I still have to repeat this process this year as there is not much compost available in my area that is worth spending the dollars on.Our dump has plenty compost but its full of wood chunks and tumble weeds with heavy wood ashes.

3/20/2015 5:47:59 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

so how do you get organics into your soil from the previous year? You pull your pumpkin in oct!You don't plant a cover crop and for most parts any organics placed in the patch will not decompose over the winter in the first place.You don't recommend the addition of organics in the spring?. What is the percent organic matter of your patch going into this season bubba???

3/20/2015 8:51:32 PM

San Diego

Bubba's 2012 diary shows him pulling in truck-loads of completely composted compost in the spring.

3/20/2015 10:14:35 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

secret compost...lol This is 2015!!!

3/20/2015 10:15:56 PM

San Diego

Well...do you know that he has stopped?
I don't...just wondering.

3/20/2015 10:24:30 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

for $1000 i will tell you....

3/20/2015 11:18:26 PM

San Diego

If you can tell me...why bother asking him?
I think I will spend my money on something more rewarding.
lol

3/20/2015 11:25:58 PM

Piqua, Ohio

Hey Carl is that in U.S. or Canadian currency? Here's a free tip I got from Pap. Silver maple leaves shredded and tilled in the fall will usually be decomposed by the time your plants start vining out. I also use an 18" mold board plow and subsoiler to get the leaves deeper. Ok that's all the freebies I have for today.

3/21/2015 5:43:31 PM

Muddy Waters

You grow however you want Carl.I am trying to help the new folks not to till fresh leaves in there soil.It will tie up your nutrients.It does not break down in 1 winter.This is FACT! not fiction.I buy professional compost.It is considered by some to be organic matter.Butt & here is the Butt It is broken down enough to start producing nutrients.Not taking nutrients out of the soil.You are confusing the post for the new guys.WHY???What are trying to prove Carl?

3/22/2015 10:44:41 PM

Muddy Waters

Ok Folks Let me Re explain I have a bad habit of letting people taking things out of context or being misunderstood.The one problem on BP is there is always someone trying to look smart & make me look stupid on here.I think cover crops are great when used properly.However I decided not go that route in 2014.The main reason was I decided I could add the beneficials as I went with my liquids so why breed them early on?Also with the combination of good compost(already broken down)NOT a bunch of fresh leaves & grass I piled up for 3 months.This combination could create to much Nitrogen for the plant Which can have a delayed reaction time.Like the end of June into July.Then I would end up with to much nitrogen & blow my pumpkins up.Or have all plant & a slow kin.Like Beni said yesterday The "Master" Spoke these words CARL "Better to go lite on ferts then to go heavy.Lighter feedings are better.You cant reverse an overload of nitrogen in a bed organic matter & beneficials.At that point your screwed.I did it on my 2009 that pollinated the 1495 Tiny mother of the 1947.I learn by my mistakes. Do you CARL??

3/23/2015 8:23:13 AM

Muddy Waters

Master Bubba Speak Now!!LOL

He who make Bubba look stupid first!
Look stupid last!! Grasshopper!!!!LOL

3/23/2015 8:44:38 AM