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Springfield, Missouri

The variety that Howard Dill provided us with is extraordinary, and what the community has been able to do with it has been nothing short of amazing +2300lbs. At what point do we take it to the next level?

In my opinion there are two things that can move weights up. First is the pursuance knowledge on plant anatomy/physiology/ecology in order to drive up weight gains. The second is a properly devised breeding program to maintain beneficial traits, purge the bad, and add new ones if necessary.

I wanted to gather people's thoughts on the idea of outcrossing Atlantic Giants in order to introduce new genes that could be beneficial. As some of you know I'm working with PM resistance, and possibly SVB resistance genes. There are many other traits such as heat tolerance, improved rooting, ect that could continue to move weights up. What are the pros/cons, and would anyone be interested in growing seed lines that were once outcrossed?

I hesitate to post this discussion as some people have polarized the community about outcrossing, which is unfortunate. Please be civil, and don't respond to those looking for attention. Lets keep this constructive.

10/27/2014 3:43:05 AM

Bethlehem CT

When you say outcrossing, do you mean interspecific crossing?

10/27/2014 7:57:40 AM

New England

I am confused by your use of the word outcrossing too. Outcrossing to me; means youre sourcing genetics that are not commonly used in order to expand the gene pool

10/27/2014 8:23:34 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

The problem with traditional cross breeding methods is that you get half of the genetics from one, parent, half from the other, and you have no way of controlling what genes you get from each parent. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Then in future generations you can lose some of the traits you have brought in. What would be nice is the gene splicing that is done to create Bt or roundup ready varieties. It sure would be nice to have AG's that you could spray with roundup for weed control or that would poison borers or beetles when they start chewing, but that technology is way too expensive.

If you want to get PM resistance, you will have to grow without fungicides, hope you get some with resistance, use them in following generations and hope that the trait stays in the offspring. The problem is that PM could wipe out your entire crop each year until you stumble upon that desirable trait. Most growers aren't willing to risk their entire crop in this manner. If you do that, you could be doing a great service to the rest of us. Just don't expect to have competitive pumpkins during the process.

10/27/2014 10:07:48 AM

Springfield, Missouri

Sorry for the lack of clarification. By outcrossing I mean crossing AGs with anything other than AGs. This would include other varieties of C. maxima or other species of Cucurbita.

I'm not planing to use any transgene technology. Selection would be accomplished using traditional breeding methods, or with marker assisted selection. By no means do I expect to have the equivalent of a 2009 Wallace with PM and SVB resistance in one or two years. Rather, is it worth while for us to invest 6-7 years of selection, and backcrossing F1s with AGs to get resistance plus size?

At the moment there are three known genes that provide PM suppression. I am working on determining gene(s) responsible for SVB resistance. In order to increase population size I would introduce a codominant bush gene.

10/27/2014 11:18:26 AM

(rocky) Bonney Lake Wa.

interesting

10/27/2014 11:33:54 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

C Maxima does not cross with other Cucurbita except Maxima. Let me find my chart.

10/27/2014 1:11:18 PM

Springfield, Missouri

I have produced interspecific hybrids with C.maxima. I will provide pictures tonight. There is a chart in my diary.

10/27/2014 1:31:08 PM

Springfield, VT

I have some interspecific crosses with maxima, moschata and pepo crosses. The intent is to cross the size of a maxima with the stem of a pepo, ie a giant field pumpkin.
the crosses are
greek red (moschata) by AG (maxima)about 40 seeds
greek red (moschata) by Field pumpkin - not opened yet
*1135 Jutras squash by Greek red & Dickson pumpkin (moschata) about 3 good seeds and a bunch of half.
In 2015 I will cross these seeds and see what I get

10/27/2014 3:23:50 PM

Bethlehem CT

Logan I would love to see some of Cucurbita ficifolia attributes worked into the Atlantic Giants.
I am not sure if it's even possible with traditional breeding, but after seeing what my C. ficifolia did this year, I have been dreaming about doing just such a cross.

10/27/2014 5:02:21 PM

Eurasia

Pennsylvania Dutch Crookneck x 1385.5 Jutras 07 brought homogeneity in fruit shape, weight and the fine crookneck color. All fruits are the same oblong size, but this is no option to get heavy hitters...no way for AGs.
This is just a great success in breeding a new edible variety. While PA Durch Neck matures too late for my climate and has to afterripen indoor, the new interspecific cross with true kernels in nearly half of the seed becomes deep orange and juicy in climate Zone 6 until late August. PA Dutch has hard and more yellow flesh, when I harvest early September, but the new fruit has completely different flesh. So storability might not be so good as in PA Dutch. And this fruit has no seedless shaft...only one great seed cavity.
Too enlarge AGs, I have bred C. maxima 'Quadramble' a four lobed mutation of C. maxima 'triamble' pollinated by my new variety C. maxima 'Nadym' (C. maxima boer ford 'Pumpkin de Durban' x C. maxima 'AG') this year.
This Quadramble will be hoist through recurrent selection and always be pollinated by the same giant pumpkin 612 Ammer 14. Because members of this forum do not accept my giant (no GPC-AG), the greater Quadramble will be no Atlantic Giant anymore.
Triamble comes from Uruguay and mainly was cultivated in Australia then. But I breed the new giant in Bavaria. And so the new more dense giant will be the Uruguay-Bavaria or UruBa-Giant. This fruit will not be grown in Northern America, where you already have the 140 Rahe 14 as the best base for future world records one or two years before the UruBa-records.

10/27/2014 5:16:53 PM

Charlotte,mi48813

Huh

10/27/2014 10:01:00 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Ignore...

10/28/2014 5:30:20 AM