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10/26/2014 7:30:23 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

or both???

10/26/2014 7:31:21 AM

Austin MN

I say both! I'm testing it at my college UWRF with nitrogen right now. If any one wants my results comment I'll post them on bigpumpkins later this winter.

10/26/2014 8:10:40 AM

Freedom Is Just Another Word For Noting Left To Lose

I went to a grow class yesterday at one of the local hydro shops. It was put on by a company that sells organic garden material. The instructor (organic co. owner) did say that organics will not compete with chemical yield. Organic will produce healthy soil and plants but to boost yield chemicals would be needed. He said with organics everything the plant needs is in the soil to be used as needed but its a slower uptake process. With chemicals the uptake process is much faster.

10/26/2014 11:19:58 AM

Rhode Island

bingo jimbo

10/26/2014 11:35:16 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Plants don't care about the source of the nutrients as long as they have what they need to grow. With nitrogen, organic sources have a distinct advantage in wet weather. Chemical forms of N leach out of the soil much quicker than organic forms. I saw this several different years on the farms that I assisted when I worked for USDA. This year I used mainly organic nitrogen for my long gourds (compost, manure and fish heads). It was a terribly wet year including a flood. But my gourd plants were the biggest I have ever grown and I got a new state record. I did supplement with foliar feedings of soluble tomato food after the fruit set, but by then the plants were already as big as what I had in the past.

10/26/2014 2:12:01 PM

Ireland

Balance of both maybe

10/26/2014 4:26:02 PM

Lodi, California

Both. Organics help with slow release fertilization, while chemicals help with quick release. Organic fertilizers basically just slowly decompose into the same chemicals found in these "chemical" fertilizers. The organic nitrogen found in say, bloodmeal, for example, breaks down into ammonia in the soil, which is immoble, meaning that it cannot be taken up by the plant. Ammonia further breaks down into a nitrate, which is soluble, and can be used by the plant. So in a sense, organic fertilizers have a sort of "fuse" that allows them to slowly release the nutrients that they contain.
P.s. I don't like the words organic and chemical, because everything is made of chemicals. The differences between these two groups is that they have different rates at which they can become available to the plants that you are fertilizing.

10/26/2014 5:12:09 PM

West Paris Me.

This past year I used blood meal for nitrogen. I was going to use alfalfa pellets as well, I had even purchased the, but I did not use them because I thought that it might be too much nitrogen too quick. Looks like I should have tried. Any idea how long it takes for nitrogen from alfalfa pellets to be available to the plant?

10/27/2014 12:12:39 AM

Springfield, Missouri

It depends on the situation, in my opinion. The %OM is a reservoir for nutrients in our patch, and everyone's first priority should be to boost their "reservoir". As most know OM will donate a fraction of the nutrients bound to it every year. I will have to look through my text books to find what the actual fractions are. I do sometimes use peat moss, but it will tie up nitrogen until it has been broken down into humus.

The only thing that is going to drive % OM up are bulky amounts of compost, not organic ferts. I prefer plant derived compost due to the lower amounts of Na (sodium). Sodium is bad for soil structure, and more importantly pulls moisture from the root zone.

It is easy to direct growth with frequent small applications of chemical ferts. Nitrogen is highly water soluble, and it is easily leached or washed away. I try not to use Urea as it undergoes too many chemical reactions with the soil. I also stay away from blood meal as it has high amounts of sodium. I prefer to use small amounts of calcium nitrate to supplement both nutrients. There are only two soluble forms of calcium that you would want to put on your plants. These two forms are calcium nitrate and calcium acetate, but caution should be used as both can burn plants.

condensed version:
Only organic I use is lots of plant compost, and/or peat moss. I don't use animal sources due to high sodium. Calcium nitrate is a good source of calcium and nitrogen. Don't use high concentrations of chemical ferts or you will burn plants.

10/27/2014 1:36:09 AM

Seattle, WA

I don't use chemical fertilizers due to my own philosophical beliefs and environmental concerns, which I'm happy to elaborate on if anyone is interested.

That being said, I think a combination of both is the way to go in regards to increasing yield. A highly amended organic soil that is supplemented with small but frequent synthetic applications should provide the highest growth rates in my opinion. I think many people overapply synthetics though, leading to excess leaching into groundwater systems and other issues beyond the patch.

10/27/2014 1:48:40 PM

Seattle, WA

I think growers should be more interested in their CEC or ability of their soil to retain nutrients.

Also, keep in mind that many of these organic amendments contain other benefits beyond their NPK. Alfalfa meal contains triacontanol for example:
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/JARS/v36n3/v36n3-hinerman

Crab/Crustacean Meal has slow release N and chitenase.

Neem is another one: http://books.google.com/books?id=IoVvbK6f0KAC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=what%27s+in+a+neem&source=bl&ots=WI7Ne4hYI-&sig=crj6ZCrBQNrN5PDMa8F7Pn1zsSE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KYZOVPCTA5efyATVpIGACw&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=what's%20in%20a%20neem&f=false

10/27/2014 1:52:15 PM

Colorado

Beni meier'said in his orlando seminar ,that hes using the same potting medium (instead of soil) that is used in the familys potted plant business. He said its a mixture of peat moss,coco fiber and clay.He grew with inorganic(water solu.) fertilizer in a daily continuous feed.He keeps the salinity level within a narrow range by measuring daily with a EC meter and adjusting daily solution to stay in salinity range.He uses some bioloicals.The WR pumpk. was grown inorganically.

10/27/2014 3:27:43 PM

Wi

1810 WR was grown with zero chemical fertilizers. Maybe it could have been bigger with chemicals?

10/27/2014 3:46:16 PM

Bethlehem CT

I look at it kind of like I see the world of medicine. Traditional medicine has it's strengths and weaknesses and so too does naturopathic medicine. It is best to utilize what both types have to offer and they can often work very well together.
In the same way I believe natural and synthetic fertilizers, ammendments and sprays can be used together to enhance the effectiveness of each one. To solely trust in one is not wise.
By the way notice I said "natural" not organic. I dislike the term organic as it has lost it's meaning in todays world. For something to be organic it has to be carbon based. Did you know that the chemical gypohosate (round-up) is organic. Yes it's synthesized, so a chemist would call it a synthetic organic. Many of the synthetic fungicides and insecticide sprays used in the garden are actually synthetic organics and as organics they get "eaten up" by biological life and are broken down in the soil.
The US government lists copper as a registered "organic" fungicide. ????
Copper is not carbon based, therefore it is not organic.( By the way I would much rather have a traditional fungicide sprayed on my food than copper.) The public is easily swayed and very ignorant on this topic. To most people "organic=good, inorganic=bad. it is hard to educate the public when there interest in this is only surface deep.

10/27/2014 5:27:59 PM