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nOVA sCOTIA

don't get me wrong people...this is"THE SITE" but to be honest i cannot remember the last time i actually learned something about growing pumpkins. I do know from speaking to other growers that they feel the same way. You want to beat Beni???Share the knowledge!! Get it on this site for everyone to read??? Lots of great new growers out there looking to read something worth while other than trash talk...

10/26/2014 7:16:12 AM

East Jordan, MI

great idea...remind me, what was your personal best?

maybe you should start, and others will chime in.

10/26/2014 7:46:05 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

well since i have only grown a tiny 1811 maybe you should start things off!!! Calling on Beni???

10/26/2014 7:54:58 AM

Austin MN

Not that I know a lot but I heard his OM levels are high and I think using a chemical fert. Can help a lot with plant avaible nutrients. Just my 2 cents :)

10/26/2014 8:12:56 AM

East Jordan, MI

ok I will start.
I spend hundreds of hours a year on research and talking to other growers. One of the best resources is the chat rooms on this site. There are always a minimum of 5-10 good growers that will discuss any question that someone wants to pose to the group.

The next best resource is the GPC seminar held in the spring every year. 3 days of one on one discussions with the best growers in the world and presentations by several top growers on how they grew their big one that year. Last year featured Beni Meier and I learned a lot from his presentation and shared the highlights of what I felt were differences that we needed to consider this year here... http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=522856
(see we do have info sharing)

The next source that I use are club newletters, especially those that interview top growers. SGPG, OVGPG, EGVGA, GVGO and SNGPG put out excellent newsletters.

10/26/2014 9:56:01 AM

East Jordan, MI

Enough of what is available and onward to your direct question...what did we do over the last 2 years to increase our PB from 1180 to 1312 to 1718.

1. Genetics! 1381 x 1725 (heavy producer x big and fast grower that grew the first 1 ton pumpkin)
2. Get Bryan Langley's soil calculator and use it. Best tool I have found to determine what we need to add. But don't go crazy and try to get everything perfect.
3. Getting soil perfect and nutrients into the pumpkin before the bud is formed (tissue test). Matt Debacco discussed at Niagara in 2012 that he believes the cell division in a pumpkin stops around day 20. Therefore, we need to get the pumpkin to make as many cells as possible in the first 20 days. The rest of the growth is just elongation of cells. Russ Landry discussed how the plant pulls nutrients especially CA in the first 40 days in Orlando in 2013.
4. Control the environment
    a. cool the plant when over 85 degrees.
    We added shade cloth in 2013
    and when that wasn't enough decided we needed misters for 2014.

10/26/2014 9:56:40 AM

East Jordan, MI

5. Change the way we added our ammendments
    a. Instead of putting everything down in the fall
    we divided the patch into 6ftx6ft squares and divided the
    ammendments by 100 (for 3600 sq ft patch). Then we added
    nutrients at the plant site and tilled about 2 weeks ahead of
    the plant growth. We got this idea from Ron Wallace's
    presentation at Las Vegas seminar (there is a DVD being sold
    on the homepage of BP.com of that presentation)     http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Attachments/WR2009_DVD_Flyer.pdf.
6. Innoculate cover crop with Mycorrhizae in the spring. This was
    also something that was discussed in Niagara seminar in 2010
    and again one of the things that Ron Wallace stated in his
    presentation.
7. Spread water out to multiple times a day to give more constant water, not surge/dry spells.
8. Increased OM (and drainage).
    27 yards of compost, 6 yards of sand and 3 inches of
    finely chopped leaves on 3600 sq ft.
9. Added a tiny bit of fert with every watering. (2 TBLS of Ureamate for 4 plants twice a day starting when plant started to vine)
10. Bigger plants. In 2010-2012 we used 20x20-20x25, in 2013/2014 30x30 (1714 was given 30x40 to let the side sweep forward).
11. We had an amazing weather year -- almost zero days of 90plus from July to end. (opposed to our normal 30 or so with 6 plus over 100).

10/26/2014 9:56:53 AM

East Jordan, MI

your turn

10/26/2014 9:57:01 AM

Lexington, Ky

http://www.ovgpg.com/documents/articles/ovgpg2-14_2.pdf

10/26/2014 9:58:05 AM

Lexington, Ky

See page 14

10/26/2014 9:58:49 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

well now Mr. Ohio. As Pap stated in a previous post..i am nothing more than a one hit wonder so any info i have to share would be nothing more than rubbish.Keep in mind that the majority of growers cannot afford to attend these seminars and rely totally on this site for info!! All kinds of undiscovered hockey superstars out there than can't afford a pair of skates???

10/26/2014 11:02:18 AM

Rhode Island

donkin get a life will ya. all you seem to do is rage on people. i for one want nothing to do with you so please leave me out of your conversations.
ps--i called you a one hit wonder because you were running down the wallaces and i wont stand for that.
you have done nothing to help any growers while ron and i have always had the growers progress in mind.
take a hike will ya please.
pap

10/26/2014 11:43:49 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

we are all entitled to our opinions, at least i like to think so!!! You do not know me and your posts means nothing to me.I couldn't care less if you had a seed from a 2900lb pumpkin

10/26/2014 1:01:04 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

disrespect is not a nice feeling now is it???

10/26/2014 1:12:31 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

now if you can honestly tell me that the t-shirt that was passed to me in that hotel room in NYC in front of all growers and wives was not intentional...i will apologize whole heartily !!!!!

10/26/2014 1:24:59 PM

Minnesota

Ican say, thanks for the Wallace seeds, I got 2009 x 1789, going to pollinate something heavy into it. Going to find something orange to pollinate my already orange pumpkin! Donkin, what you going to do with all those 247 seeds?

10/26/2014 3:22:06 PM

Soldotna,AK

Cntryboy thank you for your reply. There is a lot of good stuff there for new growers to consider.

10/26/2014 3:27:50 PM

BC, Canada

CBOY that was a great post. thanks

10/26/2014 4:10:03 PM

Saint Marys, PA

I'll admit, I'm mainly a spectator on the message boards on this site. That being said, I've learned a ton from the message boards and the discussions that many growers have.

Cntryboy I talked to you in the chat room on several evenings and you and everyone else in there helped me with a lot of the issues I was having. This was only my second year (first year where I did the research and put it all to use) and I grew a 781 lb pumpkin. The rundown you gave above has a lot of great info. Thanks for sharing.

While no one may want my opinion, I feel like I can make a fairly unbiased comment here. I know neither Donkin nor Mr Wallace. Donkin when you post it always comes off as if you're whining and jealous. From what I've seen Paps posts have a purpose and are informational.

The advancement of this "sport" is not going to depend on the heavy hitters holding our hands and giving us young guns a play by play of their daily activities. The advancement will come by just listening to what they have to say and adding it to the techniques we've learned on our own already. AKA HARD WORK AND RESEARCH!

10/26/2014 4:20:39 PM

Lodi, California

Cecil has put a lot of work into this hobby, and I would say that two 1700 pound pumpkins is the least that he deserves. That was a very nice post Cecil. The internet is a big place Donkin, and some interesting information can be found after several clicks on the mouse and keyboard, at no expence whatsoever.

10/26/2014 5:26:58 PM

Cheshire Ma USA

Great info Cecil! I hope more will respond the way you did.

10/26/2014 5:46:30 PM

East Jordan, MI

Carl...
If you rely on this site for all of your info, then you might try something new...be nice. It goes a long way in getting people to talk to you. No one likes to talk to someone who has a chip on their shoulder. You had a great idea with this post, I kicked it off since you didn't want to....keep it positive and maybe people will post the info that you are seeking, make it negative and I predict no one will post...just a thought
Cecil Weston

10/26/2014 6:17:50 PM

British Columbia, Canada

Thanks for the info, Cecil!

10/26/2014 6:39:08 PM

Torrance, Ca.

Good stuff, thanks Cecil!

10/26/2014 6:44:37 PM

West Pa

Try this on for size.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XBsgszPr_k&feature=youtu.be

10/26/2014 6:59:00 PM

East Jordan, MI

very nice post GAS....thanks for sharing

10/26/2014 7:33:47 PM

Waterville, Ohio

I like adding organic matter, as it increases the soils tilth, but getting proper mineralization from that OM I believe is key.
The greatest thing a grower can do is learn from their own mistakes and constantly implement the techniques that are proven from previous experience.

10/26/2014 8:31:12 PM

Nottingham, UK

Got to say thanks to Cecil as it was a video of yours (maybe youtube?) that enabled me to get my first pumpkin lifted via tripod, chain hoist and slings. Yeah it's a peice of cake bu t only once you know how and that video gave me just that.

Also..... your 'How I grew ....my first year' article was a selfless and lenghty article which does nothing but share and help. Thanks again.

The info is all out there being shared. You just can't help some people

10/26/2014 9:31:58 PM

East Jordan, MI

Thanks for the kind words to all. I will never give up.
http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=138447

10/26/2014 9:41:57 PM

West Paris Me.

Do you have the link to the tripod video that you are referring to?

10/27/2014 12:06:29 AM

Massachusetts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ElvtamCf94

10/27/2014 4:51:27 AM

West Paris Me.

Thanks

10/27/2014 11:41:43 AM

West Paris Me.

cntryboy when you say: 9. Added a tiny bit of fert with every watering. (2 TBLS of Ureamate for 4 plants twice a day starting when plant started to vine, I assume you are adding this per so many gallons via drip line?

10/27/2014 11:45:04 AM

http://how2growags.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_20.html#_Building_a_tripod

cntryboy gave me this link that had very easy to follow instructions with pictures that really helped.Made it a lot easier to lift a pumpkin.

10/27/2014 8:02:49 PM

Seattle, WA

Cecil, great post and good points. I think the genetics is the big one for sure. I like how you pointed out watering in even amounts to avoid wet/dry cycles, this should help with disease pressures as well and plant stress.

You might want to check out www.logicalgardener.org. It's a good site with some smart people on there. Free to use and no advertising.

FYI, grew my first giant pumpkin this year in a back area that I wasn't using on the farm. The Emmons were gracious enough to provide me with a plant. I threw a ton of organic amendments and minerals at it when I first planted it and then did nothing but water from there on out.

10/27/2014 9:13:47 PM

East Jordan, MI

Kathy
We were watering each pumpkin with 40-55 gallons twice a day via drip tape (T tape). We mixed the 2 TBLS of ureamate in a 18 gallon Rubbermaid tub and a Mazzei Venturi injector to inject the solution into the water being supplied to the plants. So 2 TBLS were being diluted by at least 45 gallons of water...pretty weak, yet heavier by nearly 7 times than we have previously used.

I will state that we started with 1 tsp per watering (for 4 plants) and increased slowly over a period of about 3 weeks until we felt that we were at the best growth. During the 66 lbs a day period of the 1312, the injector was only on for half the watering period for that plant, but after it started declining we brought it slowly back into the full cycle through the end of the year.

10/27/2014 9:28:38 PM

East Jordan, MI

The focus for next year here will be using a better method and more rigorous disease control program and a better way to deliver a drench. A very good grower that I trust told me last year that we can increase our weight by up to 500 lbs by changing the way we drench. (use overhead and let the leaves funnel the product directly down the stem to the tap roots). It was on the list for this year but just didn't get implemented. Next year it is number one on the new stuff to try.

10/27/2014 9:33:31 PM

East Jordan, MI

Anyone else have successes this year to share?

10/27/2014 9:34:47 PM

East Jordan, MI

dang it, where is the edit button, make that So 2 TBLS were being diluted by at least 450 gallons -- not 45

10/27/2014 10:54:11 PM

sevierville, Tn

can you restate the water amount per plant? not sure how much goes where. agree, edit would be nice !

10/28/2014 7:18:17 AM

Wi

You cannot take watering advice from another grower and assume that's what you need. Sandy soil? Water more. Clay soil? Water less. If it's 100 degrees out and you water 2-3 times a day chances are good your plants will rot. When the weather is cool you can get away with more without as much disease pressure. Cool nights = less disease pressure. Warm nights more disease pressure.

The best advice I feel I can give is to get info from as many GOOD GROWERS as you can. Be SUPER ULTRA careful when listening to advice on BP. There is a lot of poor or misinformation on BP.

Your best asset in the patch? Consistency. But it's also what you do with that time that's important.

So now that everyone knows Beni uses chemical ferts daily we should all do it right? Do we all grow in potting soil that's likely lacking nutrients and micro organisms? If so then yes you can do what Beni does. If you grow in soil.....might want to think again. Beni has it dialed in for him. What works for him will absolutely not work for everyone. What works in RI does not work in WI.

I'll say it again. Be very very careful with the advice given on BP.

10/28/2014 9:15:24 AM

Belgium

define GOOD GROWERS about 90% don't know about what they are talking they just say this is what I did but they don't have a clue how to explain why it works, that's not my definition about a good grower, not even if you grow 2000 +

10/28/2014 10:03:59 AM

Colorado

Watering is big in colorado. Drip tape has helped me put it down evenly.We dont get much summer rain. City water with chloramine,water temps,how much H20, when,overhead misting, soluble fertilizer etc. are all significant factors.As Chris said, what works in his patch is likely different than yours or mine. Great thread.

10/28/2014 12:56:48 PM

West Paris Me.

Thanks cntryboy

10/28/2014 1:50:44 PM

Whitehall Montana

Even if we try to replicate Benji success,we will probably not get the same results because of many different factors.His last years pumpkin had a very low seed count which lets me believe that with the right genetics that all seeds have an extreme growth possibility out of say the 1725 harp or the 2009 Wallace.Does anyone know what his climate in the greenhouse was like,did he supplement his heat or humidity.Was the clay he used supplemented in anyway.What was the PH of his growing medium compaired to a regular soil?Was any sunblock used besides the greenhouse material?I am greatful for all of the great growers out there that have helped everyone else for years and got the genetics out to every one in the world.Benji has shown us that with different growing technics,we can still continue to climb in weight and size.

10/28/2014 1:56:06 PM

West Paris Me.

My pumpkin patch is going to be interesting to figure out how to figure out how much to water and fertilize next year. A lot of sandy loam added to even out the bank. The rest has a lot of organic matter. Even one area where I need to over come a clay area that loves to go anaerobic
if over water. I have sent out multiple soil tests because the zones are so different. I think I definitely need to closely monitor water, fertilizer, and etc. Maybe one day it will be consistent. Years away from that.

10/28/2014 1:59:00 PM

Colorado

Slim,beni said in 2013(year of 2328 early sept.) that he had rare sunny july and august. From pictures it look like he pulls up plastic on sides to ventilate/cool. Thats all I got-lol.

10/28/2014 2:19:14 PM

Ireland

well said Chris, regarding every grower having their own conditions
Micheál

10/28/2014 3:57:34 PM

East Jordan, MI

And everyone wonders why no one will post anymore.
When someone does the piranha pool starts attacking.

Since I am the only one that has posted anything of substance on this thread, I can only assume you are talking to me Chris. Thanks for letting everyone know that I don't give good advice...that I am not a "GOOD GROWER"...

At least I impart what I am doing to others...which is more than I can say for many others on this site. I am not twisting anyone's arm....but I am telling everyone what worked for us and what we plan on doing in the future.

10/28/2014 6:58:21 PM

East Jordan, MI

and for clarity of how much water we used, because of the typo...We use a water meter, and separate zones for each plant, so I can control each plant separately.

Each plant ended up with between 80-100 gallons a day split into two periods 12 hours apart (depending on how wet the soil was -- we didn't get any rain for the biggest majority of the season)

That water had about 1 TBLS of UreaMate diluted in it based on dividing what was added to the 18 gallon tank that the injector pulls from daily, by how much water was used.

10/28/2014 7:07:54 PM

sevierville, Tn

thanks Cecil, i appreciate the detail. the information you gave was great. i know what works in one place has to be addapted to each person unique area, but you have to have a guide to start. Great info ! Thanks again.

10/28/2014 7:49:49 PM

Seattle, WA

It would be expensive, but I think the best way to go for watering would be to use troph blumats. We use them for indoor gardens and raised beds as automatic waterers. They are gravity fed and measure the water tension in the soil and dispense water according to what you set them at. They are coming out with a new moisture meter that will send your smartphone alerts relating to whatever limits you set for water, humidity, temperature, etc...as well. We've been using them in indoor gardens and raised beds for a while now and seen increases in yields based on proper watering and also noticed that plants take up dramatically different amounts of water based on what stage of life they are in and how much growth is occurring. Anyway, just thought it might be worth mentioning.

10/28/2014 8:08:10 PM

Seattle, WA

One "carrot" can have 5 drip emitters on it and could cover a span of 10 feet (if you wanted it to). You could also have the option of hooking it up to a hose with a pressure regulator or a reservoir. If you want to read more about them online: http://www.sustainablevillage.com/

10/28/2014 8:09:43 PM

East Jordan, MI

thanks for the link Tad...very interesting...we have a moisture meter I am playing with after beni's presentation last year and trying to figure out what it is actually telling me. I have also researched the computer controlled water sensors (and saving our pennies) that Steve Daletas spoke about in Las Vegas in 2012.

I'm convinced that water and drainage is just about the only difference between us and the top gun here....I think there is a lot to be learned about the perfect moisture we can achieve for maximum root effectiveness.

10/28/2014 8:30:11 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes I agree with a lot of Cecils information.Not that I am a very educated grower by any means.But I keep learning a lot from my own mistakes.I also learned a lot from Beni in Orlando.Hey for not smacking a home run in 4 years you sure are cocky Chris.Yes what Beni has figured out is how to give a plant a greater percentage of daily nutrients to a plant by doing a daily trickle feed combined with extremely loose soil.He is on fire.I figure he has got it dialed in about 90% of what a plant can take up in daily nutrients.I have talked with a few hydroponic growers and this is exactly what can be done with the right tools & ferts.I think it can be duplicated by many of us.if he has a secret he aint telling us about,maybe his seed counts will tell the rest of the story.Time will tell.Thanks for posting Cecil.I agree more people should post there ideas & opinions.Who cares what a few prudes think? really??

10/28/2014 10:18:07 PM

Wi

Cecil you should know me better than that. I would never take a personal crack at someone. I appologize if it reads that way. This is why most of us avoid the boards. For what its worth I would absolutely consider 1900 and way less a good grower. Surely congrats on a great season. I followed your diary carefully.

I do stick to my guns that we need to watch very closely where we get our info.

10/29/2014 6:44:13 AM

Germany

Cecil, for someone else (who is neither Chris nor you) Chris´ post with the "...to get info from as many GOOD GROWERS as you can." reads like he includes you in that bunch of GOOD GROWERS, but he points at getting info from more than only one good grower (for the reasons which have been mentioned thereafter). At least that´s what I read out of his post.

10/29/2014 6:53:50 AM

East Jordan, MI

Unfortunately, I don't know you Chris, and based on the negative comments that this site tends to generate when someone posts their opinion, I jumped to a conclusion. Thank you for setting me straight. I apologize for taking it the wrong way Chris.

I really hoped that others would chime in and add their success stories. There were a LOT of PB broken this year. People, myself included what to hear about things that you think helped you get your PB. It's a community effort. New things to think about will push us higher and higher.

10/29/2014 7:25:11 AM

Germany

@ bubba : "if he has a secret he aint telling us about,maybe his seed counts will tell the rest of the story." How that ??

10/29/2014 7:38:11 AM

Belgium

He means hormones Benny

10/29/2014 7:40:03 AM

Germany

In 2012 Beni grew a big one off the 934 Schieder seed, other growers haven´t managed to mimic this success with the same seed. From this pumpkin he harvested plenty of seeds so that he donated a good load of them for the EGVGA seed promo.
Hence:
- He is doing something right (apparently he can grow a really big one out of so many seeds, his growing technique seems to play the dominant part over seed genetics).
- Don´t wait for the seed count to reveal any secrets, Beni can grow his PBs with good and with poor seed count.


(BTW, talking about reading secrets from seed counts, did all of the Bubba pumpkins have over-average seed counts this year?...all of them with similar seed counts, or did you find notable differences between the seed counts of your pumpkins this year?)

10/29/2014 8:00:08 AM

JACKSON, WISCONSIN. ; )

I know I tend to have lower seed counts than most... But I don't know why?
So far I have one with about 75 seeds and another with about 120 ... Why can I not get 400 to 500 like a lot of other growers?

10/29/2014 8:41:30 AM

Belgium

internal hormone balance regulates amount of seeds for some plants

10/29/2014 9:26:47 AM

Muddy Waters

My seed counts are so far real similar.good counts. I'm not knocking Beni, just saying if there is a secret ? Seed counts could suggest there is? Nothing wrong with a secret or two most growers have them . Like Chris Kent's father told him as a child . If I tell you everything I know. Then you will know more then me . Some methods are not shared, that's ok . Even Bubba has secrets sorry if my post seem anti Beni I had the story wrong I apologized. Let's move forward. I would grow Benis seeds if I had room. But I will grow my own and the 1895 miller . Afterall the Benis are still unproven. The miller had proven itself big time

10/29/2014 10:23:18 AM

Muddy Waters

I'm not afraid to post even if taken out of context .oh well life goes on . I learned a long time ago. What you think of me is none of my buissness. far as growing goes think outside of the box . Take bits and pieces of all you hear . A lot of the info is all wet.people told me adding sand to my patch would make cement. ?? Never did figure that one out??take life with a grain of salt!!

10/29/2014 10:36:30 AM

Muddy Waters

Correction 1985 miller

10/29/2014 12:12:26 PM

Eurasia

Tell us the truth about your 1811/12, please!
It looks like it had the influence of C. moschata landraces. Is the 1811 tolerant to fusarium?
I would seriously grow the 1811 Graham 12, if I got seed...

10/29/2014 5:43:47 PM

Eurasia

...but I do not import seed from North America further on, DONKIN. ...too much problems with all that diseases like Pectobacterium, Papaya ring spot virus, mosaic virus, Alternaria fungi...
I always had to give the plants into a quarantine area.

10/29/2014 6:13:54 PM

Belgium

Ludwig, there are proper sterilizing procedures that kill these diseases without killing the seeds so you don't need to be afraid lol

10/30/2014 2:43:17 AM

Ontario

.

1/18/2015 7:40:59 PM