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British Columbia, Canada

First off, let me apologize for bring this up again, but I'm starting to hear people talk about it so I just thought I should ask.

The most common response that I got the first time I asked was "There's way more big pumpkins grown outside than in greenhouses."

Well...very few growers actually grow in greenhouses, they are quite expensive. But despite the small number of pumpkins grown in greenhouses, they totally kicked our butt's this year. Ian & Stuart grew a 1884 lber, Jos had a 1840.9 and Beni with a 2096.6, 2102 and a 2323. I know these guys all worked extremely hard to reach these weights, but 300 lbs above the previous WR is kinda hard to compete with.

Again, I'm not going to take a side here, I just thought I should ask. Congrats to Beni nonetheless!

10/12/2014 7:24:28 PM

British Columbia, Canada

Title should say "argument alive again," sorry about that.

10/12/2014 7:25:45 PM

Nikiski, Alaska 99635

Trust me greenhouse growing is not as easy it appears. There are pros and cons to the outdoor/greenhouse side of the coin. When you get right down to it, growing at the top level of this hobby you are altering/enhancing your growing environment to some degree regardless of what you may think, from early season hoophouses, to extra water, ecetera. In the end it all comes down to how much time effort and money you want to put into your grow operation for the desired results. Personally I'd like to grow in Napa Valley California and shelve the greenhouse for all it's hassles and extra associated costs.

10/12/2014 7:42:49 PM

Omaha, Ne.

yes

10/12/2014 7:49:16 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

agree with JD...bring on the napa weather!!!

10/12/2014 8:00:52 PM

New England

There are certainly many added benefits if greenhouse growing : controlled watering, less disease, less pests, and depending on the greenhouse: controlled climate. From pictures it appears that leaves stay much healthier and optimize growth because of this. Not saying greenhouse growing is easy but from photos on BP it appears that growers who are successful with it... Do so with extreme results. With that being said, I do have more respect for the growers who sets a WR with a pumpkin grown out in the elements were mother nature so intended. That grower did it in the weather, with bugs and disease issues and rainfall, etc. It's a whole different ballgame when the plant is surviving and producing outside in a field. But 2300 is insane and congrats to Beni on a heckuva season

10/12/2014 8:16:26 PM

Granite Bay-California

Napa is overrated, it's all about Walnut Grove!

10/12/2014 8:25:55 PM

Colorado

northern europe is too cool to grow a giant without a greenhouse,so if you want to be competitive with areas that have ideal climates then you have to grow in a greenhouse. Is it fair that my weather sucks-no but it is what it is. This is a competitive hobby,growers are going to take steps to improve their weights. Beni has got ag growing dialed in,he told many of us what he was doing in orlando. My hats off to him.

10/12/2014 8:28:34 PM

Northville Ny

Some people's climate only really allows them to grow in a greenhouse. I'm not sure which growers they are? I'm sure J.D. is one of them. Are there good climate greenhouse growers that may steal the show? Time will tell. It will create problems that we will need to sort out.

10/12/2014 8:35:45 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Growing outdoors could be classified as natural. Growing in a greenhouse could be classified as a control environment. Maybe making it more fair?

10/12/2014 8:43:57 PM

On top of Brush Mountain, Pa.

I must say that I do have more respect for the guys growing their pumpkins outside in the elements but on the other hand those willing to spend the cash and do the work have to be respected too. I imagine guys running the 100 yard dash were not terribly happy when they were beaten by guys wearing shoes. And guns do beat bows and arrows. If you have to have a greenhouse to compete I think in the future there will be just be fewer people competing. Whether or not this will be good for the sport remains to be seen. Maybe there should be 2 categories, greenhouse and no greenhouse.

10/12/2014 8:49:13 PM

canal winchester ohio

I look at this like another hobby I use to have. I did competitive bodybuilding and although I did it completely drug free I chose to compete against everyone no matter if they were clean or steroid enhanced because I wanted to go against the best. I look at this the same way I want to compete against the best no matter how they got there.

10/12/2014 8:53:52 PM

Minnesota

How many world records have been done in a green house? Just
Beni's? I'm not worried, I think Beni just knows what he's doing.

10/12/2014 9:29:55 PM

Lodi, California

It's all a matter of whether or not you need a greenhouse. If night temperatures during the summer can be as low as 30 to 40 degrees, you might want to consider a greenhouse. But otherwise, you can probably grow just fine without one.

10/12/2014 9:35:24 PM

Anchorage Alaska

In my opinion the only thing a greenhouse helps me with is to elevate the temps, when really needed in the colder part of the season and deflect excessive rainfall( not really a concern for me ) insects are not a problem up here either. all a greenhouse does is helps me imitate the temps about 1500 miles to the south..in the north raising the temps are everything

10/12/2014 9:40:42 PM

Bottom of ohio

Grow em how you can, in my opinion....... Biggest wins

10/12/2014 9:42:14 PM

Muddy Waters

What puts Beni on top is not the greenhouse.It what & how he feeds them .You could do the same thing outside.The greenhouse is a very small part of it.

10/12/2014 9:53:19 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

It has nothing to do with fairness, you do what you do to get the best result. Does growing in a greenhouse better your chances, look at the your PB before growing in a greenhouse and after, there's your answer.

10/12/2014 9:56:46 PM

Torrance, Ca.

What Bill said!

10/12/2014 10:21:16 PM

Oregon

Growing in a greenhouse can be a pain in the ass.Air temp can get to 140 on hot days soil temp can get over 110. Powdery mildew can show up in one might and cover all your plants.If bugs get in they breed like crazy.Growing in a greenhouse in alot of ways is harder than growing outside.

10/12/2014 10:55:27 PM

Alaska

Total Plant Care. What's easily grown outdoors in California isn't up her in Alaska. You do what every it takes to manipulate your growing environment. I'm more concerned with GMO's and grafting.

10/13/2014 12:35:23 AM

Vernal, Utah

I have been watching how AG have been getting bigger ever year whether grown inside or outside. As the size and weight increases so does the problem of getting an AG off the ground and onto a pallet and to the scales safely without damage to the fruit. I have been growing dinky, ditch pkns as Don Young calls them. On the other hand I have done a lot of research and testing to build a lifting ring that will lift and equally support your pkn. As otts get larger it is necessary to adequate support the fruit during lifting. It might take a grower or two using a smaller diameter ring damage their pkn, by causing the sides to split or the bottom to fall out. Larger pkns need stronger and larger diameter lifting rings. No matter how big and heavy you can grow your pkn I can build a lifting ring that will help you get them to the scales. ...www.ubgiants.com

10/13/2014 1:32:17 AM

Knopp, Germany

GH growing is as fair as any other method used to grow em big. Next thing we will have a "didn't use ferts category" or "didn't use windbreaks Category" or "grew in temps below 70 degrees category" or "didn't use pesticides category" we all do whatever we can to get the biggest and if you don't do all you can do then don't blame the GH growers.

maybe you should do a site search for "Going Nesbitt", doing whatever it takes has been around for a long time, it is part of the tradition.

10/13/2014 2:29:44 AM

Ireland

Yes

10/13/2014 5:58:44 AM

Muddy Waters

Amen Owen,My friend has new bowling shoes 80$ and a 400$ ball. its not fair!!lol

Will Beni Cry foul when he is outdone??He will be out done sooner or later?

10/13/2014 6:18:54 AM

Nottingham, UK

Is it fair?..........

Now that's a phrase that should be reserved for the more serious issues in life, not pumpkin growing.

10/13/2014 6:37:27 AM

East Jordan, MI

What owen said...
there are things that everyone does to manipulate their environment...misting, shade, wind breaks artificial lighting, computer sensor controlled watering system, raised beds, steam sterilization of soil, tractors, dump trucks full of organic matter, hundreds of lbs of amendments, the list goes on and on...

It's about growing the biggest.
Get 'r done!

10/13/2014 6:45:18 AM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

It is a biggest pumpkin contest no rules on growing. Sound Fruit.

10/13/2014 7:29:24 AM

New England

genetics and weather and nutrients still seem to be the most important factors

10/13/2014 8:23:18 AM

Bethlehem CT

The criteria for winning is by weight alone. Pure and simple. This same sort of thing happened in the watermelon growing forum when Gabriele Bartoli grew the first record watermelon on a graft. This greenhouse thing may change the face of giant pumpkin growing, or it may not . Change is inevitable. You either adapt to the changes or you get passed on by. Innovation is the key, Both Beni Meier and Scott Holub have demonstrated great innovation in their respective pursuits. Congratulations to the both of them.

10/13/2014 9:49:52 AM

South East

All is fair in love and war. (and pumpkin growing!)

10/13/2014 10:32:32 AM

Hot West Tennessee

Whatever works and whatever it takes.$$$$$

10/13/2014 11:16:07 AM

Central Minnesota

All my plants start the year in Cold Frames (mini greenhouse) and the good ones end the year covered and heated to save the plants (mini Greenhouse). Got to adapt to the growing conditions. Next year they will be in a greenhouse all year :-)

10/13/2014 11:26:19 AM

Alaska

Yes it is fair.

10/13/2014 1:13:20 PM

British Columbia, Canada

These comments were interesting to read, thanks everyone.

10/13/2014 1:41:17 PM

Utah

is growing in West without squash vine borer vs the East with squash vine borers?

is growing in the desert vs growing in humid conditions?

is growing in at sea level vs growing at 5,000 ft elevation fair?

is being connected with great seed vs not knowing growers with great seeds fair?
is having a tractor vs a tiller vs a shovel fair?

is growing organic vs non-organic fair?

is being rich and being able to buy stuff vs being poor and not being able to buy stuff fair?

Nothing in life is ever fair .... including growing giant pumpkins.

10/13/2014 5:10:44 PM

Lakewood, CO

I thought somebody had told me that Beni grows in professional potting soil. If that's the case, that's a HUGE benefit as well - and an expensive one at that. You can't beat professional potting soils, the kind used by greenhouse growers.

I agree with Gordon...nothing in life is ever fair.

Glad I'm competing with folks who have similar growing conditions.

10/13/2014 8:46:12 PM

South East

Rather then answer on the " is it fair? " question I'd question the lack of categories in growing.Aren't categories and/or different classes a part of life? And very normal in society and other hobbies and sports?

honors classes/ regular classes

diners/fast food / fine dining

indoor athletics/ outdoor athletics

indoor cycling, soccer/ outdoor cycling, soccer

ball sports: Minor league/Major league,
high school football, college football, professional football

Amateur soccer, semi-amateurs, pro's

Race cars: formula 3 then f3000 and formula one on top

Then there's geographic classes: Football; AFC North, South, East, West. And NFC, North, South, East, West

NBA: Eastern and Western conference both subdivided in three divisions.

In pumpkin growing however there is a single list every year. And weather you grew in a greenhouse, had sponsorship, are a professional grower or farmer, have the equipment, or the good climate. Only the weight counts.

Shouldn't I compete with people who grow in similar conditions with similar means? What is true fairness of competition? The absence of rules and regulation? So every one has a shot?


Classes are introduced to level the playing field for competitors or people alike with either similar conditions, skills, means, geographic location. They assure fairness of competition and prevent odds from getting completely out of balance.

10/13/2014 10:32:08 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Too cold, use a GH. I have read for several years down in Hot South of the USA...folks have been using shade cloth & misters to keep the temps down. Any difference? I think not!! Do what you gotta do!!! Congrats on the new world record!!!!! Peace, Wayne
Frank and or Tina said it well! Bottom line, weight counts!!!

10/14/2014 12:09:15 AM

Central Illinois

I think it should be noted in the results if it was green house grown if anything just to know, but eventually I think nearly all WR will come from a greenhouse.

10/14/2014 8:26:16 AM

Cameron

I think the cold temps Ontario has had in the past couple years will drive some growers to go to greenhouses. This past year was very crappy & the Ontario results show that. Not 1 pumpkin over 1500# so far & there's not likely to be one at this point. If we are to compete in the World consistantly, we need to have better control over our temp & conditions. It can go from being 90+ degrees & with high humidity during the day to 48-55 degrees at night. If the opportunity comes along to get a good used one (cheap price), we might just pick it up & give it a go. In the end, the only thing that really matters to us is a new PB (with long-term goal of maybe one day reaching 2000#) & I think we might need one just to accomplish this goal. Good luck all.
Jane & Phil

10/14/2014 8:47:34 AM

Ireland

Is growing in a greenhouse cheating?
Answer:No
Simple

10/14/2014 11:11:36 AM

Lloydminster/AB

Well. If you think greenhouses give you an advantage then build a greenhouse. Can't afford one? Pick a different hobby. If it's all about winning then you do what you have to do to win. This isn't about fair, it's about growing the biggest pumpkin possible. People get left behind, if that's you I'm sorry but maybe you don't have the resources to play with the big boys. Hobbies and sports outgrow people all the time. NASCAR started with just some old cars. All the loser talk here is driving me crazy. Stupidest thread ever, including the ones with Amelio.

10/14/2014 11:34:10 PM

Clinton, Iowa

"FAIR" what and interesting word....I good friend's dad used to here the word "FAIR" several times from us neighbor kids and his own kids alike quite often as we grew up.. His answer was pretty simple and as I get older quite ingenious.. He answer...FAIR...if you want "FAIR" wait till August that is when the "FAIR" comes to town.. sometimes that is as close as you get to fair!! ...LOL!!!

10/15/2014 6:55:47 AM

Billerica,Massachusetts

if i had a greenhouse I'd use it as well

10/15/2014 8:16:32 AM

Cheshire,Ma

Growing in a greenhouse dramatically changes the environment the pumpkin has to grow in. With that said it doesn't mean I am calling it cheating or unfair ( I had to say that because I'm sure someone might think that is what I am saying) Beni did an awesome job of proving the weights can go higher.

10/15/2014 9:50:17 AM

nOVA sCOTIA

nice to see someone speak their mind Don! I grow in a greenhouse because i cannot grow on the outside in this area and my diary's over the last 5 yrs will prove why. The most elaborate greenhouse in the world will not grow a 2300lb pumpkin.It's the brains that walked through that greenhouse door every single day that grew it.Beni Meir knows his soil and Beni Meir knows his plants. Gotta be joking...dam right it is fair

10/15/2014 12:12:11 PM

Georgia

So Don your saying he whos got the most money will usually grow the bigger pumpkin? I do agree with you that most hobbies that don't involve a persons physical abilities money plays a huge role. Growing in a greenhouse isn't cheating but it definetly an advantage. Its a different class just like natural and untested bodybuilding. The way your talking why doesn't a rich person just build a climate controlled grow house and hire workers then show up at weigh-offs to collect money?

10/15/2014 3:20:10 PM

Lloydminster/AB

Ok, I was a little grumpy. Lol. I've heard lots around here that growing in a greenhouse is an advantage but I consider it a disadvantage that I or anyone else had to use it. It cuts out light, breeds diseases related to moisture and is generally tough to grow in. It's just a crutch that growers not in the perfect climate are forced to use. Anyone that uses one has two sets of knowledge to learn. I'm a long ways from figuring it out. I have a bunch invested in a greenhouse and my crappy setup with some general purpose poly on pvc pipe worth about $500 bucks keeps growing the fruit that goes to the weigh off. I'm saying that if you don't live in that perfect region you're probably screwed anyway and that if your serious about competing for the world record you might have to spend some or move to a better region. I agree Carl, grower skill always will be the deciding factor.

10/15/2014 11:39:27 PM

Rhode Island

alls fair in love and war - as the saying goes

there will always be advantages and disadvantages to growing anything.its up to each grower to do the best they can with what they have. look at whats been done in places like alaska?
weather (controled or not) soil,ammendments,testing,etc, etc, depends a lot on the growers committment to being the best.
some areas need a greenhouse and othere like new england? could use one early and late season but most of the time no.(great to have though when you get 4.5 inches of rain in one day like we did mid season) -- we lost 4 of our biggest within two days after that. a greenhouse cover would have prevented that.

bottom line?-pounds win weigh-offs
pap

10/16/2014 8:31:25 AM