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Waterville, Ohio

Hi all,
Within the past 5 years there has been a dramatic influx in specialty/natural/organic fertilizers. The retail fertilizer market is flooded, we as the consumer, have a limitless amount of options to choose from. With the main objective being to increase plant yields, size and vigor by contributing to the soils health with these amendments. How do we decipher what is "snake oil" from the products that show results.

Have any of you used a product where the result is a directly correspondent to application? If so, I would love to hear what they are.

My feeling is that once you have helped create a balanced, healthy soil ,there is no way to determine whether a product was of benefit as visual performance could be skewed.

With that said, I will continue to use myco, humic as well as a variety of other amendments. Just curious as to everyone's thoughts.
-Dave

3/7/2014 6:26:43 PM

aurora, IL

Xtreme-gardening.com is a great website for organic fertilizers with proven results from giant pumpkin growers for the past 7 years or more.

3/7/2014 7:09:20 PM

Waterville, Ohio

Agreed, I haven't tried azos yet, cal carb in my opinion,seems to be up in the air as to the effectiveness.

3/7/2014 7:38:45 PM

Torrance, Ca.

" Sea Green " is one I like, did wonders on my strawberries last year. I used it very little on the kins but surly will this year. Read up on it, learn about it, call the guys that developed it,,, I think you'll like:) Later in the season when we're using some stuff we'd rather not but help with disease,,, you can use this product to bring the good guys back into the soil.

Another thing these little guys do is eat unwanted salt in the patch:)

I've picked these guys brains at Primordial Solutions for a few hours during the winter months:)

I've used plenty of snake oils from the hydro store I go to and this one actually had noticeable results.

3/7/2014 8:16:45 PM

Upa Creek, MO

I'm going to agree with a past post from Donkin on this, he said basically the pot guys know what they are doing. Find a local shop and discuss there. Money drives the better "grey matter". I also try listening to some of the better growers here or at least the honest ones and who don't appear as a dipshit like myself. That being said, I have been consulting with my club (Southern Giant Pumpkin Growers) and Handy.

3/7/2014 8:54:33 PM

Midway, UT

The pot guys do know there stuff but you have to be careful with their statements too. There are some guys on the forums that you can see doing some very good studies and with their shorter growing seasons they can get at fact vs. fiction quicker sometimes.

If you have ever followed body building supplements you will know that marketing hype moves way faster than scientific fact. I've had friends that were body building guys that were always on the "cutting edge" of supplementation. I go back now and look at some of the things these guys were taking 10 years ago and 80% of those supplements are pretty much discredited now.

The very expensive fertilizers in the grow stores clearly have a lot of hype. A local grow store owner kindly gave me a number of sample bottles of different products last year. When I looked at the labels I was surprised to see that a $20 bottle had 1-2% of its ingredients worth anything. Same stuff I could buy for $5 and would be getting 40% ingredient at a garden center.

Always check your sources, experiment and read as much scientific literature as you can find. Even great growers have gotten bad information and share it.

Thanks Ken for creating this section of the site. A wonderful thing. My favorite stuff on this site is the scientific stuff and there are some great people here to learn from. (side note: I wasn't for legalization of pot in Colorado but more than happy to sit down with any grower that knows their stuff and talk plants)

3/8/2014 1:00:01 PM

Midway, UT

To get at your question DHertz for most soils I think kelp meal and alfalfa are worth their weight and alfalfa is very inexpensive. Not necessarily as sexy as some of the newer, more exotic products but just as good.

3/8/2014 1:02:23 PM

Waterville, Ohio

Definitely Arvada, I would also add cottonseed meal as a good inexpensive soil additive, especially to those with more alkaline soils.

3/8/2014 5:09:04 PM

Torrance, Ca.

So true so true Arvadaboy,,,,,, I must have tried 30 different samples from those guys over the past couple years. Always on my test veggies first. None of them have really worked,,,,,,,,,,, or if they did,,,,,,, I couldn't tell.

There was this one product,,,,, some type of growth regulator I tried 2 years ago on some test broccoli and cauliflower,,,, boy did that stuff deform my broccoli and cauliflower plants!!! I can't think of the name but it will come to me,,,,,,, Let me tell you though,,,,,, those were the thickest, hardest most dense cauliflower and broccoli heads we've ever had!!! :) Haven't used it sense,,,,,, if that tells you anything......... And I know now why they like it ;)

3/8/2014 5:25:34 PM

BC, Canada

It is interesting that this thread/discussion has lead to questioning the value of "hydro" products. This is one of the best examples I have seen of easy $ driving prices to a ridiculous point. (aside from real estate). There was, is, so much $ in pot that the stores and makers of products have been able to get away with super high prices for a very long time. They have done well. Who needs crime? I have read lots and tried a lot of these products over the last several years. There is some good stuff out there, and some advances seem to have been made; but it is marketing. They know their market, magazines with pictures of muscled up young dudes with their baseball caps on backwards and skinny babes with big, ah, melons? and maybe a Harley or hummer in the background. Now put a shark or a dragon on the label and you can sell something that is worth 5$ for 50$. I wish I had of had that type of mark up when I was in retail.
But do the products work? I think there are very mixed reviews on that. Caveat Emptor.
What I wanted to say mainly is that I was a little shocked when I read So.Cal's last post. Those products you are referring to are known as PGRs or plant growth regulators. The sadly hilarious part is that they are listed as known or suspected carcinogens, and they are popularly sprayed on "medical" marijuana. They cause a plant to stunt and stack its flowers closer together. Those little nursery plants you can buy in spring that are 10 inches high and solid flower ain't what nature had in mind. The products, mainly paclobutrazol and daminozide, are not as far as I know approved for use on food crops anywhere.
It is a sad and confused world sometimes. If you experiment I highly recommend not to do it on food crops.

3/8/2014 8:24:04 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Most time store products are made from natural stuff just for your conveinence& there pockets. But during the process weather froze dried pulverized& mixed with salts you loose some nutrients.

3/8/2014 8:26:23 PM

Central Illinois

Here is a bit of info on paclobutrazol that cavitysearch mentioned, if the weed growers cant be trusted to use safe growing habits they will cause more problems for legalizing it.

some of the label names mentioned
bushmaster Gravity flower dragon topload phosphoload

http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/plant-growth-regulators-poison-marijuana/

can be purchased here
http://www.caissonlabs.com/product-P054-100GM-Paclobutrazol.php?id=439

3/10/2014 1:54:41 PM

Seattle, WA

DHertz, I totally agree. There are so many products now on the market and so many crazy claims. I think with good soil, genetics,good environmental conditions, proper watering and pruning, you're 95% of the way there towards a giant. I think people put way too much stock in "fertilizers" without having any controls to know what actually is making a difference.

I would agree that kelp meal and alfalfa meal are well worth it too. My 2 favorites. I'd add a mineral like basalt or glacial as well. And Ag Lime for calcium.

I work more with indoor growers than pumpkin growers. I think that they are on the cutting edge but they also fall victim to the marketing hype. Stuff marketed to them is crazy overpriced too, due to the value of their crop.

3/10/2014 6:32:53 PM

Seattle, WA

This video made me think less of the Sea Green guys, but I do know people that swear by it. I know they're not using any controls either and the stuff is hundreds of dollars a gallon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDZXJa7WKsU

3/10/2014 6:34:52 PM

Seattle, WA

I tend to be highly skeptical of most microbial products by nature though.....

3/10/2014 6:37:14 PM

Torrance, Ca.

That's it,,,,,,,, I'm not using it ;) No, I know Tad its hard,,,,,,

I did some very amateur testing with it last year and was the only product I notice a change in my veggies with that was any good or at least as decent as compost tea.

Who knows,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

3/10/2014 8:32:33 PM