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Missouri

I feel stupid asking thes questions but I'm a new grower only been growing for a couple of years!!! Is hand pollanting that important to grow a giant !!!!

3/5/2014 7:30:41 PM

Lodi, California

Not nessisarily, but it is important when it comes to the next generation of seeds.

3/5/2014 7:34:49 PM

Missouri

What do u mean by next generation???

3/5/2014 7:49:27 PM

BC, Canada

I think that there is a relationship, maybe ?, between pollination and the eventual size of the fruit. If there are only a few seeds growing the fruit has no reason to grow excessively large. A small seed cavity will do. If there are a large number of seeds would there be some biology that induces more growth in an attempt to mature those additional seeds? I know the first response will be that some very big kins had some very low seed count. But, is there a relationship between plant growth and the number of seeds trying to mature? This would be, maybe ?, a hormone released by the developing seeds that stimulates fruit growth. If nothing else, seeds got to weight something. And yes, I got no science on this but maybe some erudite cucurbitologist will have some thoughts.
Plus, it is really easy to do.

3/5/2014 8:17:12 PM

Hanson Ma

The hand pollinating is just a control of genetics. If you only plant one plant than it would most likely be selfed. Unless your next door neighbor grows giants also. If you grow 2 plants and don't hand pollinate than you don't know if it came from the other plant. A giant is mostly luck infused with experience and hope because there was a little 220.3 that was able to grow 2 over 1700. which does lend to genetics because its mother and father were huge. And it was hand pollinated in a green house. No bees in the winter.
Probably not the best or full answer but I hope it helps.

3/5/2014 8:19:07 PM

Wixom MI.

Hey browny, polinating is only important if you plan on saving your seeds for replanting the next season. If you let nature polinate for you, you will have no idea what you will get the following year. It may get crossed with a zucchini if you let the bees polinate for you. if you plan on replanting your seeds next year, you must cover both male and female flowers before they bloom so that no other insest or bees contaminate your polination. After you polinate them yourself you must then recover the pollinated flower so that no other insect or bee can contaminate your pollination then you will have a clean cross.

3/5/2014 10:28:45 PM

Lodi, California

Sorry if this doesnt relate to tour exact post, but here is somethink im curious about, and I hope you dont mind me piggybacking this post.


Cavitysearch,

That is a good question. I would like to try to expand off of it; why do the really large pumpkins tend to have such a low seed count (in general)? If you think about it, all pumpkins start out with a set number of seeds; the ammount of seeds inside of the pumpkin is is under debate before pollination, while the ovules [baby seeds inside the immature ovary (pumpkin)] is already at a set ammount. Then pollination occures, in which a set number of ovuoles are fertilized (im guessing that not all would be fertilized) which would leave x number of seeds that would be viable by harvest. So my question is, when you grow a 2328, 2009, 1783, ect. Pound pumpkin, what happens to all of those seeds?

3/6/2014 10:04:41 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

There is so much we don't know about this. This past season I had a fruit with about 400 good viable seeds, and about 500 "empties", hollow seeds, in the same fruit. How do we get those other possible seeds to be viable?

If you've ever watched a bee do it's thing, it's very interesting. We tend to lightly dust the female with the male, but the bee is in there really going to town with the male, poking and injecting... (Sorry if this seems graphic, these are just flowers after all.)

We tend to dump three males pollen all at once. Maybe we need to hit it once, then hit it again 20 minutes later, then again with a third 20 minutes after that...?

Or maybe one male is "more than enough", but we aren't delivering it effectively?

3/6/2014 10:33:20 AM

Johnston, Iowa

Great question! Hand pollinating has everything to do with controlling the genetics of the seeds which will be produced in the pumpkin. It also makes sense that getting a larger amount of pollen into the female flower will give a better chance for a higher seed count.

I too am confused as to why a very large pumpkin like the 1810 only had a dozen or so seeds, and why the 2328 had a low seeds count with most being under developed (as per what Matt D showed on his diary).

3/6/2014 10:33:53 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

typo... should be, "the bee is really going to town with the female"

3/6/2014 10:35:19 AM

Pocatello (cliffwarren@yahoo.com)

And maybe seed development is highly dependent on certain nutrition/chemical availability. Example: Pumpkin seeds are high in zinc. If there isn't enough zinc available in the soil, how can seeds develop? (Just a wild and crazy theory...)

3/6/2014 10:41:25 AM

Germany

As far as I know the 1789 and the 2009 had pretty good seed counts, and therefore I guess that the size of the pumpkin hardly relates to the number of viable seeds inside. It also happens to significantly smaller pumpkins that some of them contain great numbers of fine seeds whereas others only contain just a few. Most of us, however, are inclined to recognize the poor seed counts in the largest pumpkins in a pronounced manner because this feature sort of has negative influence on all those growers who want to grow such a seed and simply can´t obtain one of them, whereas (almost) nobody would be concerned about the one or another 500-pounder which has a poor seed count. Just my humble opinion.

3/6/2014 10:47:08 AM

Wixom MI.

in my opinion, i dont think that seed count means anything to the size of a pumpkin ! i think that many giant growers are using so many diferent products to increase cell structure size that it may be disrupting the seeds ability to grow and mature ! for instance, i dont understand how you get seedless watermellon or cucumbers ? i have a variety of cucumber that only grows female flowers only, absolutely no male flowers ! and you dont need to pollinate them either ? that is how the stay seedless. but if you do polinate them then they will produce seeds but then the offspring will take on the pollinators charactoristics.

3/6/2014 10:58:18 AM

Springfield, Missouri

Seedless watermelons are triploids.

Lack of seeds in Atlantic Giants could be due to a number of different things. Environmental factors such as heat and humidity can effect pollen germination.

Plant hormones sprayed around pollination time can induce virgin fruit production, or cause seeds to abort. Nutrient deficiency or plant stress can also cause these symptoms.

3/6/2014 11:29:43 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Maganesse defeciency can cause seedlessness... Did you know that the seedless watermelon has a higher fruit tempeture due to not having seeds.....

3/6/2014 11:41:32 AM

Ontario, Canada.

"Is hand pollanting that important to grow a giant?"

YES. I think the answer while debatable is very relevant to growing a giant pumpkin. This IMO pertains to sink strength.
I remember reading past studies indicate that higher rates of pollination in female flowers may help to develop stronger sinks and xylem pathways into the fruits developing peduncle. While some might argue that a reduced seed count and hormones also effect the process and drive sink growth rates. Either way resolving this is difficult as the 2032 had plenty of seeds.

3/6/2014 3:51:55 PM

Missouri

So with what everyone is saying you do not have to hand pollant to grow a giant!!! But what is going to happen in the patch if u have standard pumkins for carving next to yr giants??? is it going to heart the the size of my prize winner

3/6/2014 7:40:57 PM

Hanson Ma

Browny, The general idea is the pollination doesn't affect the size of the female it affects the seeds for the next years pumpkins. I wouldn't want the prospect that a field pumpkin was the father to a possible giant. that's where the hand pollinating comes in.

3/6/2014 7:52:57 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

generally field pumpkins and Atlantic giants won't cross. They are different species.

3/6/2014 8:11:36 PM

Central Illinois

Do bees grind up pollen by the movement of their legs and wings?

3/7/2014 8:20:22 AM

Springfield, Missouri

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=213760

3/7/2014 2:59:12 PM