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Upa Creek, MO

Anyone build their own in their yards specifically to attract frogs, toads salamanders etc (no fish)? I am going to build one this spring similar to a Koi pond, but without pumps and filters. It will be up to 2 feet deep, but with more substrate and plants to cater to amphibian cycles. It will also be 15 feet from the patch so hopefully benefit the garden. I guess I'll be trying to put in a very small scale wetland.

Below is kind of ums up what I am talking about:

http://www.loudounwildlife.org/HHFrogPond.htm

2/17/2014 11:57:31 AM

Johnston, Iowa

Looks cool!

2/17/2014 1:11:34 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Luke you'll be out there with a bottle of wiskey& a gig.trying to catch dinner.

2/17/2014 1:44:43 PM

Elk County, PA

I want one!

2/17/2014 2:20:51 PM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

I don't have a wetland of my own, but I designed around 100 for the farmers in my county over the past 30 years. Sizes ranged from 0.1 acre to 5 acres. They provide the most productive wildlife habitat for the greatest number of species. You will see lots of birds and animals coming in for a drink. And lots of beneficial insects like dragon flies, damsel flies, etc. And your website is right; fish and wetlands don't go together.

2/17/2014 2:30:00 PM

Corbin, KY

only problem I can see is mosquitoes.

2/17/2014 3:19:02 PM

Butler,PA

Luke, a couple of years back I built my own backyard pond.
It's an oval 10ft by 15ft. It holds around 3500 gallons of water. The center of the pond is 42 inches deep and I have a shelf 16 inches almost all around the sides of the pond. The shelf serves as a great place to plant water lilies. I dropped five gallon buckets to the center and bottom of the pond with rush pond plants and they find their way to the top. The side of the pond under the shelf is tapered and I have flat river rocks lining the entire pond. Around the pond I have large rocks, some hundreds of pounds and many much smaller. I filled in between the rocks with #2 gravel. Naturally I have fish and a small fountain that runs all year round. Need to put oxygen back into the water for the fish. I have between four and eight North American Bull Frogs. They help keep the fish population down. If you're interested in more info let me know. Jim

2/17/2014 3:20:32 PM

Upa Creek, MO

Thanks for the input. Jim that sounds nice! I'm just wanting something for amphibians only now so low oxygen is better. Tadpoles will help control mosquitoes and there are other ways to fight them. We also have a native minnow here called the mosquito fish which is a live breeder and found in low oxygen areas like in sloughs, oxbows and marshes. I might add a couple of those each summer as well and don't care if die or eaten - I catch by the hundreds in a place close by. They are usually a nuisance but won't have other fish for them to out compete.

2/17/2014 4:32:09 PM

Butler,PA

Luke, if you build it, they will come. The bull frogs will find their way to the pond. During the summer and fall they become very noisy, but after awhile you will get use to them if you enjoy leaving your windows open throughout the night. My pond is located right off the back deck and they are a treat to watch. They sit up on the side of the pond and at first whenever you go out onto the deck they jump into the water. After awhile when they see that you are a friend and not a foe you can really get a leason in nature. You can observe them sitting on the edge of the pond and each one of them facing a different direction like they are looking for something to come up behind them. Every evening before sunset in the summer and fall a couple will head to my little vegetable garden on the side of the house. It takes them 15 to 20 minutes to make the 100 ft trip. Also, they don't like fish getting to close to them if they're sitting in the water at the edge. The best observation with the frogs are seeing them sitting on the lily pads. Everybody enjoys seeing that. Go for it Luke. I have ideas if you want to build a low cost pond. Jim

2/17/2014 7:46:31 PM

Upa Creek, MO

I already bought the lining and I think now I am going to build it about 5 feet outside the patch. It'll be shaded quite a but but most of my yard is. It'll also be about 40 feet from the fire pit, so will be nice to have a few beers and listen to them calling while sitting on the crooked bench I carved from a fallen tree (was trying to be like D. Marshall one year). I have no man-cave inside now since kids have taken over and this is as close as I get. lol

2/17/2014 8:08:50 PM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

I build backyard ponds for living. My company Gem Ponds, has built 100's of water-features in Chicagoland.. www.gemponds.com .Stawecki is right..Build it they will come. Still recommend some sort of filtration or a waterfall for your enjoyment. A low profile bog type filter would be great for frogs or toads..Keep the water moving, add a few minnows or goldfish and mosquitoes won't be a problem. This is also a great water source to supplement watering your pumpkin patch.Email me if you need any construction tips

2/17/2014 9:39:40 PM

Butler,PA

Luke, one more thought. Research evasive vegatation. You may think cattails would be a nice addition to your pond. You gotta be careful they may over take your pond.

George, my pond is an on going project. Maybe we should explain that to Luke. It's never completed. My question for you George...what's the best filtering system you recommend to keep the water clear? I've tried a few things over the past five years---it seems like the fish are not keeping up their end of the cycle of removing the green stuff.

Luke, if you have fish in your pond...they get so friendly they will eat right out of your hand. Just wiggle your fingers and they will come right up to you. I know you fish a lot-- try that when you're fishing or just take along a container of fish pellets and lure them into your honey spot. It's unique. Just some thoughts. Jim

2/17/2014 10:10:46 PM

Billerica,Massachusetts

built a Koi pond a few years back the fish were eaten most likely by herons but the local frogs found it and moved in.

2/18/2014 7:44:53 AM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

Go as big as you can the 1st time..most ponds will be rebuilt 3 times.You will always be adding plants, stones, or tinkering with a waterfall. I am a certified Aquascape contractor. So I support their product. A good bio-filter, skimmer,pump that is at least 3000 GPH and stone/gravel on the liner should keep your pond clear. A bog filter is great if you want a natural look, or have a heavy fish load. Occasionally you need to add bacteria, or products to control string algae. The IonGen is a fairly new system that controls string algae as well.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMpztsAHy8

2/18/2014 8:44:19 AM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

I know on bigger ponds they sometimes lime them to throw off ph levels so algae cant grow.could you do this on smaller ones.or would it kill your cattails & lilly pads?

2/18/2014 8:53:22 AM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

This is how we rock it in one day..
http://youtu.be/PDniGFElI7k

2/18/2014 8:53:50 AM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

The PH will fluctuate in a days time. A reading 6.5-8.0 is typical. Higher PH readings will cause algae blooms. It will also affect aquatic plant growth

2/18/2014 9:02:43 AM

BC, Canada

Good discussion here. Luke, ponds are an ongoing delight. There is something about a water hole that continues to give through out all the seasons. And it doesn't matter if it is no more than a large pot or an area big enough to put a little row boat in. We are fortunate in that we have a wet area on our property that turns into what we call "the stream". More of an organized trench that funnels the water down the hill to the beach. We have a water license that allows us to dam for the purpose of irrigation. This "dam" is a very large piece of sand stone dug into the bank with some 4" PVC pipe installed as a drain and water level control. This pond is mostly "natural" as to vegetation and animals and it has a clay bottom that holds the water. No bull frogs here yet- they are a horribly invasive pest in many areas. I actually help catch and eliminate them from our lakes here. The pond has our local indigenous frogs and salamanders and a large variety of bug life. I built a little bridge over it,total of 6 feet long. We have planted the edges, placed a little rock wall with a path, some garden ornaments and a few of my bonsais. It isn't the classic fancy pond as it looks a little wild but we love it. My fish, koi, are keep in a separate area. I get great organic muck out of the bottom every year for the garden.

2/18/2014 10:20:22 AM

BC, Canada

Cat tails (typha)are used for water filtering and cleaning. A web search will turn up dozens of articles. The algae/bacteria relationship is complex but manageable. There is a lot of info on this if you read on the various koi and fish keeping sites. I have learned basically that the algae starts to grow earlier in the year ahead of the bacteria. Algae will grow in colder water than the bacteria. In a small pond the algae is a pain early in the year and then one day it magically clears up. This is because the water has warmed enough to sustain the bacteria. I know it is a little more complex than that but that's it basically as I understand. This is why a "biological" filter and pump are important in a closed system, and they are easy to make.
Good luck on it, should be fun.

2/18/2014 10:22:30 AM

Butler,PA

George, don't be offended because you build ponds for a living, but anyone could build their own for a few bucks. I'm using a 24ft swimming pool liner that a local pool company was getting rid of. My cost zero. Saw a pile of rocks in front of house not too far from me doing some landscapeing so I stopped and asked the owner if he wanted to get rid of them and he just smiled and said they're yours. It took me several weekends to get them to my house. I forgot to mention--my neighbor asked what I was going to do with all the dirt I was hand shoveling---I told him it's yours. He even helped dig and haul it away. Got the fish from a friend of a friend along with the plants. Just got to use you imagination.

2/18/2014 10:45:43 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Hey Luke, make sure your boyz are both good swimmers before installing any kind of water feature...

2/18/2014 11:42:59 AM

Upa Creek, MO

Thanks for input everyone. George ill keep that in mind for future reference.

Glenn, right on for now. That's why I want to build more of a bog/wetland type spot now. Shallow for the most part but deep enough to support species of local amphibians which isn't much.

I took a herpetology course years back and we went to some pretty big and small areas to sample. It's amazing what a stagnant, ephemeral "puddle" can support with toads, frogs and salamanders and their reproductive cycles.

2/18/2014 12:11:26 PM

Colorado

I have a koi pond with lily pads and cattails . Besides koi I'd stock it with bullfrogs and their tadpoles. The frogs take off when we have heavy rains and play frogger in the neighborhood. You may want to put a barrier fence to keep the critters in.

2/18/2014 1:06:35 PM

Roselle, IL GJGEM@sbcglobal.net

"Anyone could build their own for a few bucks" LOL, anyone can dig a hole and put a liner in... A good portion of my work is ripping out home owner specials.Like some people, thats the way I started, and the hobby has advanced from there.Thank god I can make a living doing something I love and get paid on average $8000 -$10,000+ per pond or more

2/18/2014 2:16:59 PM

Home of happy lil plants

My neighbor left the cheap above ground pool out with no chemicals in it until several thousands of treefrogs used it and the tadpoles fully eliminated mosquitos from that source anyways, on occasion iI would see a from wander down to the patch and scamper thru the foliage in the shadeof the leafs. If I saw a squash bug and frog was close I would throw a squash bug over near the frog, and watch the frog scurry over to the squashbug.

2/19/2014 1:03:14 AM

Upa Creek, MO

That's what I'm going for spence, more garden help. We already have a nice population of Bufo Americanus (toads) and they hang out in the garden each day. Some were so fat from eating insects, I can feel them in their swollen bellies and they can barely hop. One voracious eater particular let me pick him up and hold him over some ants while he kept eating - true story!

2/19/2014 8:59:58 AM

Farming- a bunch of catastrophies that result in a lifestyle

The biggest bonus to living in the swamp IS the mosquitoes as it pertains to pumpkins: Mosquitoes, and mosquito breeding areas attract dragon flies. Dragon flies will eat anything and everything that moves. Last year I stood quietly on several occasions and watched them take off with bugs up to the size of tent catapillars- they have no fear of eating vine borers either, and they love cuke beetles!

2/19/2014 1:18:34 PM

Home of happy lil plants

ill haveto video the dragonflies next year too they like to dive bomb me by the hundreds

2/19/2014 2:59:00 PM

Upa Creek, MO

A question I have for anyone with one of these ponds is do you add soil over the lining for the plants to grow into, or do you anchor the plants down and go soilless? I read soil free have more clear water and it seems soil bottoms would break the lining down faster?

2/19/2014 2:59:18 PM

Colorado

Pot the plants in black nursery pots. 2-5gallon size.You can put a layer of stones in the bottom to keep em from tipping

2/19/2014 3:20:39 PM

Butler,PA

Luke, in the deeper part of the pond I use five gallon buckets for some of the plants. I plant water lilies and bulrush(pond grass)in the buckets and fill them half way with some good old clay for the lilies and potting soil for the other plants. I fill the rest of the buckets with #2 gravel, the gravel help weighs the plants down to the bottom. On the shevles around the edge of the pond, I made indentations and laid the lily tubers in them and just covered them with #2 gravel. All your pond plants don't have to be planted in dirt. You can have floating plants like water hyacinth and submerged plants like parrotfeather. To answer your question about adding soil over the lining for the plants to grow, the answer is no. There are a bunch of pond plants that need no soil at all. Cojoe's idea about using black nursery pots is a good idea, I just use 5-gallon buckets cause I have them. My advice---just use your imagination.

2/19/2014 8:19:54 PM