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Lodi, California

I have yet another post that I would like to put out there and am open to oppinions. I think that the 1725 part of the equation provides a nice shaped upright fruit, while the 1409 provides a compact bulk to the pumpkin. The 2009, with a genotype of 50 to 50 percent 1725 to 1409, produced the 2328 Meier, which showed both of these traits, and was a flatter pumpkin. The 2009 also produced the 1985 Miller, which was a more upright fruit. Now, the 220.3 snowball produced the more upright 1734 Steil, but it also produced the flatter 1744 Fulk. These four very similar pumpkins produced by these 2 very similar genetic lines do not add up quite right to the genotype of these pumpkins, as the genotype of the 220 is higher in 1725 that 1409 that the 2009. So the real question is, if I were to raise or lower the ammount of 1725 or prehapse raise the ammount of 1409 or vise versa, how would you predict the preasence of a higher level of 1409 or 1725 would affect pumpkin shape? Thanks!

1/4/2014 3:36:48 AM

Rhode Island

ashton
predicting what will happen when we plan a cross is many times a crap shoot at best.

i get why we do it which is sound in its logic however,these ag genetics have been crossed,inbred,and passed around like a biker babe so much that we can only hope to acheive by planning our crosses.(whick i will always encourage for future generations)if not the growth of our champions could stagnate.
and, when you consider how often the better seeds get planted and crossed?it really can be a roll of the dice.

ps-i do believe however that traits like wall thickness and over all size depends more on the grower as well as the seed stock.remember the seed is the potential,you the grower must squeeze the maximum results from those genetics.

pap

1/4/2014 8:42:51 AM

East Jordan, MI

There are a lot of variables Ashton. Gravity and Position is one of them. If the pumpkin rolls back on its blossom (like the 2328 did) the "height" now becomes the "width" thus a flatter pumpkin. Personally I think weather and nutrition/health of the plant (which results in how fast they grow) plays a very big part in shape too and goes hand in had with gravity and position.

Also, remember the seeds in a pumpkin are all different in their own way. Think of all of the past attempts are re-crossing the same parent seeds to re-create a great seed. Have any of them truly recreated that seed?

Think of people as an example. Two siblings with the same set of parents can be similar, but can be very different. One can look like dad and the other mom. One can be very tall and the other very short. One can have blonde hair and the other brown. One can be dark complected the other have fair skin. One can be very athletic, one can be clumsy. One can be a genius the other not so much. The list goes on and on, but I think you get the picture.

So get to your real question, if you raise or lower the amount of 1725 or 1409 what would the affect on shape be. It depends on which trait the pollen you happen to get from either seed is the dominant trait,(like pap said "it's a crap shoot") and unfortunately that is only realized when the offspring is grown. Thus the reason many people will only grow a "proven" seed. They then have a general idea what the outcome will be in size, shape, color, vigor, thickness, and flaws that might cause splits.

1/4/2014 9:38:46 AM

Lodi, California

Thanks for the help guys!

1/4/2014 11:57:38 AM

Eurasia

Blossom underneath the fruit was caused by the SDBE factor (forces dominantly the short distance between the ends).
It´s easier to understand pumpkin´s genetics, when you always think with the SDBE and the also dominant factor MCCIB (maximizing circumscribed circle in-between).
The 2032...ah no the 2328 Meier grow as a flounder very soon, and so the axes of evil of the double SDBE sank through gravity, while in the very remaining stable 2032 NWR the axes turned to good with much flesh below the blossom.

1/4/2014 2:00:23 PM