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Lodi, California

I was looking at my supposive vine pattern for 2014 and I came apon the prospect of 'why does the plant before the pumpkin contribute more to weight gains?' I was thinking that I was the "energy" that ultimately produces the fruit. So the process begins when the roots absorb water and nutrients. The water and nutrients are then transported to the foliage were it is turned into chemical energy through the process of photosynthesis. Now, lets pretend that I am the chemical energy traveling down the main vine to the fruit from the foliage to the main. I simply am transfered to the fruit down the main vine. Now, lets pretend that I am the energy coming from the plant behind the pumpkin. The water and nutrients have to be diliberately transfered out to that foliage that is 30-50 feet from the stump, not to mention the fact that the energy has to go past the pumpkin and then come all of the way back to the pumpkin to be absorbed. This is just an out of the blue thought that I have had and I would love to be corrected if anyone has any other ideas to add to this topic.

1/3/2014 2:05:01 AM

Lodi, California

in essence, the point of my idea is that it is easier for the plant to transfer energy on the shortest route.

1/3/2014 2:08:57 AM

British Columbia, Canada

Wait, how do plants transfer energy / nutrients since they don't have a heart like we do?

1/3/2014 2:53:36 AM

Anamosa, IA BPIowegian@aol.com

Plants pull water up from the roots through the xylem as they transpire out through the leaves during photosynthesis through the actions of cohesion and adhesion. In the dark when photosynthesis stops, so does the transpiration,. Then the water with the products of photosynthesis is transported through the phloem to other parts of the plant, including the fruit. That is why the fruit growth occurs at night. I think Ashton is right, that a fruit on the main has a more direct access to the plant's plumbing.

1/3/2014 6:36:26 AM

Minnesota

I grew some plants a couple years ago diagonally across a square grow area. The secondary's started out 3' long and got longer the closer they got to the fruit. At the fruit the secondarys were 16-17 ft. if you think about it, the end leaf on the first secondary was about the same distance from the pumpkin as the end leaf on the secondary next to the pumpkin. 14 foot of main + 3' secondary = 17' side off pumpkin. I'm not sure if it really matters though.

1/3/2014 10:51:33 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Ashton, you are always thinking. There is opinions on both methods. For instance growing vines after the fruit may help to delay senescence of the plant buy foster elevated cytokine levels that prevents abscission of the fruit. Joe A, talked about this at Niagara Falls a few years ago.

1/3/2014 6:45:16 PM

Upa Creek, MO

^^ Agreed, and keep thinking and don't let the grumps get to you who say you post too many questions. When you get to be my age with screaming babies and sleep 28 hours a week, you forget how to think and just kinda stare off into space a lot...

1/3/2014 7:28:58 PM

NE Kansas

There are college students out there who cannot comprehend the questions you are asking. Don't let it go to your head, but all the same, keep thinking and questioning and you will be a highly respected grower one day.

1/3/2014 9:37:30 PM

Anchorage Alaska

Ashton.. check out the book Teaming with nutrients.. by Jeff Lowenfels..good read on how plants function

1/3/2014 11:43:06 PM

Connecticut

The 2000 character limit gets me again;-)

Part 1 of 2

Typically in the early stages post pollination the majority of the energy that is growing the pumpkin probably comes largely from the part of the plant from the initial plant site to the pumpkin. This is mainly because this portion of the plant is matured and is at the stage of development that is able to produce more energy than it is consuming so the extra energy can be stored in the pumpkin. As the plant material after the pumpkin continues to grow out and fill in it will initially consume more energy than it provides but once it gets to maturity it will then begin to produce energy that can be stored in the pumpkin. *Remember we are basically growing a storage organ or pumpkin.

Now, in my opinion the standard Christmas Tree (or box) method of pruning only allowing a main vine with secondary vines coming off at perpendicular angles is the most efficient from the plants stand point. Running side vines out 50 feet+ results in the nutrients having to travel a great distance where simple intercellular friction will cause the transfer to not be as efficient as it could be. Also, if you are growing third stage growth this means there are four junctions that again the nutrients need to flow through (including the stem junction) which again in my opinion is not as efficient for the plant. I find the tertiary stage growth junctions particularly weak when I find a stray one or two in the patch. I can usually give them a quick tug and they will break off at the node where they join the secondary vine. To me this is further proof of their weak attachment and odds of low nutrient transfer efficiency rate.

1/4/2014 12:17:27 AM

Connecticut

Part 2 of 2

How this would be tested is with a radioactively labeled carbon atom. The radioactivity is not harmful nor does it change the way the plant uses the carbon, the only purpose is to be able to identify the carbon atom from the others. So, scientists will give a know dose (or pulse) of these carbon atoms and then wait for a period of time and see where they end-up. The below link provides a great short and to the point experiment (complete with figures) illustrating the concept of carbon transport. The test plant is cucumbers so it is very similar to pumpkins. For those interested in the science take a look at it…

http://www.isolife.nl/example_horticulture.php

The take home message is that I prune my plants following the Christmas Tree or Box Method, because I think it is the most efficient for the plant.

1/4/2014 12:17:51 AM

East Jordan, MI

You are always thinking Ashton, and that makes the rest of us think too...keep it up. These are some of the best discussions we have had on here is a while.

There is one not so small thing that you left out of your description of the flow of nutrients and energy though. EACH leaf node has its OWN roots. This is how the plant can support multiple fruits. Couple that with something Matt said, "*Remember we are basically growing a storage organ or pumpkin." and the fact that this is the plants entire reason for existing, I think the plant feeds the pumpkin from any direction without having to travel through the entire plant, but I am no scientist, I just go by what I observe.

1/4/2014 9:52:54 AM