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Southern Sweden

Some vegetable-growers (such as growers of cucumbers and tomatoes) are pumping CO2 into their greenhouses, which increases the levels of CO2 to 800-1000 ppm, thereby increasing their harvest results. Has anyone here tried to grow pumpkins in greenhouses using this method?

10/20/2013 3:54:53 PM

Lodi, California

increased Co2 can cause lower seed counts, which is the price to pay for more weight. Now that I think about it, maybe Beni used co2 in the greenhouse to grow his 2328 lb pumpkin, which is why there where only 2 seeds from that pumpkin. Thats just what i'm thinking.

10/20/2013 6:40:31 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

Ever heard of Cal-Carb

10/20/2013 7:07:29 PM

British Columbia, Canada

There was only 2 seeds in the 2328?

10/20/2013 7:10:48 PM

Lodi, California

That's what I've been told Jordan

10/20/2013 7:18:18 PM

Eganville, Ontario

Will a bank give a loan for a pumpkin seed?

10/20/2013 7:19:23 PM

Northville Ny

bank may deny you, but that is funny, right there, I don't care who you are!

10/20/2013 7:38:22 PM

Colorado

There is a washington or oregon grower that tried it at least a couple seasons. He had some over the chart pumpkins and some people thought the seeds from those pumpkins had more vigor.

10/20/2013 9:46:05 PM

Mnt.pleasant ,tennessee

Ill deffinatly have sumn rain proof riged up to vent sugar yeast water mixture.under canopy &round others.

10/20/2013 11:18:05 PM

BC, Canada

pg3, what is the reference you have that co2 causes lower seed count?

10/20/2013 11:21:22 PM

Belgium

ashton, you should stop giving advice and info about stuff you don't know anything about

10/21/2013 2:12:23 AM

Germany

if CO2 uptake by the leaves is the limiting factor for the assimilation of the plants, higher levels will increase carbohydrate production of the plant. More fruit ? I think so. Bigger fruit ? Perhaps. But never heard of lower seed count and cant see an logic reason for that.

Beni Meier grows in a large Polytunnel, no chance to control CO2 level.

10/21/2013 7:06:36 AM

Lodi, California

oh sorry I mixed up seed count and nutritional value. C02 stimulates seed count, but lowers nutritional value of crops.

10/21/2013 8:54:36 AM

BC, Canada

pg3 Interesting, I had not read that before. So I did a web search,
Here's a link
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=4112&method=full

Thanks

10/21/2013 1:12:52 PM

Canton Ohio

CO2 works great but in a sealed room temperatures can get out of control and root rot can wipe out your crop.

10/21/2013 1:21:45 PM

Stanwood, Washington

As giant growing moves more and more towards the greenhouse paradigm, I have a feeling that atmospheric control may be the next thing to hit the sport. When you think about it the intake of CO2 and its conversion to carbohydrates may be just as important as what we put in the soil. The Pot Heads are way ahead of us on this front. There are all kinds of studies out there on CO2 levels and plant growth. Its just one more thing that can be added to creating the optimal environment and it will help push the sport to new heights. The logistics will be dificult to handle with Pumpkins because the size of green house necessary for a pumpkin.

10/21/2013 1:24:21 PM

NE Kansas

Hey, I think I can fit two 600 sq ft plants in my basement...

10/21/2013 1:39:39 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Global Warming......

10/21/2013 3:39:56 PM

Eurasia

We as agricultural reserchers did much scientifically tries in the 1980´s. We built up poor Al-soils with CO2 pumped into the soil. In the first year yields could be nearly doubled for many crops but soil OM tripled or quadrupled caused by more roots and much more microbes and animals in the ground.
The second year there were tripled yields (compared to the year 0 without more CO2) and 5 to 7 times more OM.
These tries were done with plowing up ameliotating (so amelio got his name) every year or even every season when two main cultures were grown.
We can´t purge pumpkin patches. And so I developed many methods with cavitation to get CO2 into pouring or fertigation water.
To fertigate CO2 means that you pour so much that you drench a little. I only drench in the morning, cause pumpkin roots should not be shocked with colder water and soil should not be cooled down.
Thank you "Franlie Goes" from Canton Ohio for your words about root rot: it is a great problem with colder soils. the great success from the 1980´s were achieved under tropical conditions and very high soil temperatures.
With cavitation we do not cool down water. With CO2-gas from the bottle into the water you have to cool water down to get more CO2 into it. So without cavitation no CO2-fertigation can be done. And only in the morning it should be fertigated. Only vortex funnels can bring CO2 out of carbonite stone into your pouring water.

10/21/2013 3:55:37 PM

Eurasia

correction line:
...ameliorating...

10/21/2013 3:57:56 PM

Eurasia

...soil should not be cooled down at evening.

10/21/2013 4:00:52 PM

Eurasia

Correction line:
The great successes from the 1980´s...

10/21/2013 4:02:56 PM

Lodi, California

Microbes need o2, pump the soil with co2, I would think the sail would be a anerobic mess

10/21/2013 5:22:44 PM

Lodi, California

Soil*

10/21/2013 5:23:02 PM

Wi

Due to my proximity to the Twin Cities I have been accused of benefiting from "co2 drift." True story.

10/21/2013 5:27:31 PM

Eurasia

@ pg3
The secret of success is here the deep and ameliorating plowing to get much more air into the soil as well as into some inches of the former subsoil too.
So there is always enough O2 also in the ameliorated subsoil.
But think of the enhanced plant growth above: they produce so much more O2 with the added CO2! When there is too much O2 at afternoon, more ozone (O3) are formed: this "heavy" and most active oxigene sinks and is a little bit heavier than CO2. Ozone is around 100 times more solubly in water than CO2 (depending on temperatures), and so you drive much more oxygene into the soil with every fertigation.
How can you get more CO2 into the soil before the great plant growth in spring? Use Ferrous Carbonate from Texas ( http://www.sidcominerals.com/about-iron-carbonate/ ) with crystalline oxalic acid (the wiZy can help you) to mix into the soil with the rotor tiller in late March or April, or do so with dolomite into the soil and citric acid with every fertigation.
Careful!
Oxalic acid only into the soil but citric acid with pouring water.
In the soil iron carbonate form to iron oxalate, and CO2 is released. Later on the Indian blues and earthworms feed the bacteria in there gut with oxalate and do the very best amelioration, while CO2 is released again. This combination of Iron carbonate and oxalic acid is far more better then dolomite with citric acid, but you have to be careful in handling and despense oxalic acid. This world best quality of ferrous carbonate from Texarkana brings a little Ca, Ba and Mg carbonate as a sideline. I personally see Ba as a essential mineral in plant and human feeding. How long will it last until FDA will follow me?!

10/21/2013 7:09:33 PM

Eurasia

...in their gut...

10/21/2013 7:12:47 PM

Minnesota

Pumpkinlobster-what do you think of using ocean water as fertilizer?

10/22/2013 7:31:33 AM

Lymington UK

This is part of my GPC talk I did a couple of years ago.


We have huge leafy plants that like nothing more in the day than sucking up a truck load of CO2.
So to start with here are a few important facts.
Photosynthesis is a chemical process that uses light energy to convert CO2 and water into sugars in green plants.
CO2 improves plant vigour and growth and we should regard it as a nutrient
Background levels outside in the day are about 340ppm
In general most crops show that for any given level of photosynthetically active radiation, increasing the CO2 level to 1000ppm will increase photosynthesis by about 50% (so just remember this figure)
And here’s the important bit
If you have a green house/poly tunnel with little ventilation it is easily possible to reduce the level of CO2 during the day to as low as 200ppm.
The decrease in photosynthesis when CO2 level drops from 340ppm to 200ppm is similar to the increase when CO2 levels are raised from 340ppm to 1300ppm (do you still remember that 50% figure and that was only raising the level to 1000ppm)
So cranking up the temps with the vents shut is not going to do you any favours here.
In an ideal world and money was not an issue we would be supplementing CO2 as it is guaranteed to increase plant vigour and pumpkin weights.
More recently Stuart was looking into CO2 on Strawberries and found that yeilds but more important to us size increased up to 7%
It's very unlikely that CO2 would cut down seed production.
I hope this helps Ian

10/22/2013 10:56:46 AM

Stanwood, Washington

Ian,
I am curious as to why CO2 levels would drop using a poly tunnel? Is it from plant intake? In one of his DVDs a couple of years ago, Joel Holland talked about how he did some readings of CO2 within his sealed cold frames and he actually found that CO2 levels increased when the cold frames were closed. his theory was that it was a result of off gassing from organic matter breaking down in the soil.

10/22/2013 11:59:02 AM

Lymington UK

Yes you are right and Stuart and I have seen the levels rise particularly this year after we mowed in our rye grass. This was a very big bonus and as it was not the reason for putting in the cover crop.
What I would say is that it is extremely important that anyone growing inside invests is a CO2 meter. We have one and without it we would be missing out on good opportunities.
It’s when the plants get very big especially in sealed poly tunnels that CO2 can drop down to very low levels.

10/22/2013 2:39:13 PM

Albert County, New Brunswick,CANADA

Garden near a highway.....Plenty of elevated levels of Co2 I bet.

10/23/2013 7:29:57 AM

Eurasia

Oh Richard!
Sodium, chlorine and with it conductivity are far too high in poured ocean water. Mercury would also bring some problems.
But I know that you use hystery salts of a mystery cult. How big are your pumpkins then with it?
Better look for higher contents of the first and main nutrient CO2 under the foliage.

10/23/2013 9:30:03 AM

Minnesota

I use it dilluted, a teaspoon of dehydrated sea water to a gallon of water! they are about the same weight with or with out. I just like them getting every mineral there is. Here is the site where I buy my sea minerals from. seaagri.com

10/23/2013 11:43:11 AM

Southern Sweden

In a research report from the University of Gothenburg, it was concluded that the quality and levels of protein in wheat grains decreased as an effect of the increasing levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
Here's a link to the article, unfortunately in Swedish, but maybe you can translate with Google:
http://www.atl.nu/lantbruk/s-mre-vete-med-h-gre-koldioxidhalt

10/23/2013 12:46:44 PM

Eurasia

Levels of protein in malting barley also decreases with more CO2 in air and in soil...and so we have to have it!

10/23/2013 5:46:38 PM

Eurasia

Oh Richard, better use fly ash from burnt coal, there you get all minerals too.

10/23/2013 5:49:04 PM

Eurasia

If you want to get higher protein content and quality in your CO2+wheat, you have to spray amino acid fertilizers on the leaf after flowering. We as growers don´t need your Swedish scare tactics.

10/23/2013 6:01:43 PM

Fairfield, CT, 06825

Hey pumplobster, can you email me at Nicholas.huydic@gmail.com. I have a question for you.

Thanks

10/24/2013 9:52:52 PM

Southern Sweden

pumplobster
2003 I was one of the first pumkingrowers outside USA/Kanada growing a 1000 pounds pumkin, so give me an explanation of "We as growers don't need your Swedish scare tactics."

10/25/2013 2:37:09 PM

Western ny

I grew a pumpkin in a greenhouse 20 X 24 ft , had over 400 seed from my pumpkin

10/27/2013 7:52:02 PM